MR. VAN ES: It's good to be with
everybody. For those of you that I haven't met,
I actually joined EXIM as part of the Biden-
Harris administration in March. I'm the SVP for
external engagement and communications.
I'm obviously very excited to have
joined EXIM, very excited to be a part of this
new chapter of the agency. And from what the
career staff has told me, this body has been an
incredible resource for the agency. And so at
the top, certainly want to thank all of you for
your expertise and making time to provide your
input.
I will be brief, I know we have a
packed agenda, I just want to flag in terms of
kind of what's happening on the administration
side. This isn't Africa-specific, but we did
have some news related to supply chains and
domestic financing. Earlier in the week, the
White House rolled out a series of
recommendations on supporting U.S. supply chains,
and part of that was related to EXIM exploring a
domestic financing program.
So I think to the extent that any of
you have thoughts or feedback on how we can put
together a proposal, we'd certainly welcome that.
I will stop there and turn the program over to
Dan Runde who will take us through the meeting.
Dan, are you there?
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Yes, sir.
MR. VAN ES: All right.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Can you hear me?
MR. VAN ES: All yours. We can hear
you.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Great. I'm moving
around a little bit. Sorry about that. So I'm
Dan Runde. I chair the Sub-Saharan African
Advisory Committee for the EXIM Bank. I
appreciate everybody being here. This is an on
the record meeting.
One of the things I like about the
EXIM Bank and the Sub-Saharan Africa Advisory
Committee is the profound bipartisan nature of
the African agenda. And I think that the EXIM
Bank has a significant role to play in the Africa
story. And it's going to create American jobs,
and it's also got a win-win for the United States
and the continent of Africa.
And all the folks on this call
understand that. I think it's so great that
we're convening this meeting. We're going to get
an update on the Biden-Harris administration's
priorities in relation to this topic.
We're also going to get an update from
the EXIM Bank leadership. There's a lot of busy
people from the administration who made time to
inform us about these issues. I don't think I
need to go into much more detail than that. I
think one of my roles, Chris, is to do a roll
call, if that's -- if I'm not mistaken. Is that
correct?
MR. VAN ES: That is correct.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: So can I ask? Let me
see. I see some of you on the call. I'm just
going to call out some of my friends, and you
guys help me out if I'm missing somebody. So I
see Mr. Nedelcovych. Could you just address --
identify -- take yourself off mute and say hello?
MEMBER NEDELCOVYCH: Present. Hello,
looking forward.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Thank you. My
friend, Jim?
MR. O'BRIEN: Hi, Dan. Jim O'Brien.
Good to see you.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Thanks, Jim. Okay.
I see -- let's see here. Who else? Do I see my
-- is my friend, Florie Liser, on the line? Is
Florie on the line?
Okay. I don't see her. Because of a
variety of issues, my phone is not -- I'd ask one
of my -- the staffers to help me go through the
list of the other folks that we need to hear
from.
MR. VAN ES: Hey, Dan, how about this.
I'll just run through the Advisory Committee
list, and that may be a quicker way of going
about this.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Yes, please.
MR. VAN ES: Okay. So I'm just going
to go alphabetically. Derek Campbell? Scott
Eisner?
MEMBER EISNER: Here. Thank you.
MR. VAN ES: All right. Rebecca
Enonchong? Lori Helmers?
MEMBER HELMERS: Present.
MR. VAN ES: Florizelle Liser?
MEMBER LISER: Present.
MR. VAN ES: Florie Liser?
MEMBER LISER: Nice to see all of you.
DIRECTOR PRYOR: And sorry to
interrupt, Chris. But Rebecca is in the lobby.
So someone may have just admitted Rebecca
Enonchong.
MR. VAN ES: Okay. Sounds good. We
will mark that for the official record. Mima
Nedelcovych?
MEMBER NEDELCOVYCH: Here, present.
MR. VAN ES: Okay.
MEMBER NEDELCOVYCH: Good
pronunciation.
MR. VAN ES: I did my best. EE Okpa?
Marise Duff Stewart?
MEMBER STEWART: Yes, good afternoon.
MR. VAN ES: Good afternoon. Paul
Sullivan?
MEMBER SULLIVAN: Paul Sullivan.
Hello, good afternoon.
MR. VAN ES: And Sola Yomi-Ajayi?
MEMBER YOMI-AJAYI: Good afternoon.
Sola Yomi-Ajayi, pleasure to see everybody.
MR. VAN ES: All right. Did I miss
anybody? All right. Dan --
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Thank you, Chris.
MR. VAN ES: -- then I will turn it
back to you.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: So I think our first
order of business is to hear from an update on
EXIM priorities. I think we're going to hear
from Jim Cruse who's the Vice Chairman and First
Vice President Acting. Jim, the floor is yours.
VICE CHAIR CRUSE: I just have to get
to the mute button. That's all. Thank you all
and nice to see you here today. There have been
quite a few things going on around the Bank since
last we met.
The one that Scott -- that Chris
mentioned relating to the supply chain thing is
perhaps the most obvious and one that has come
out into the public. We've been working with the
Biden-Harris administration on the supply chain
issue for some months. And they felt that this
capability of the Bank really did fit well with
what they were trying to do in terms of
rebuilding the supply chain.
If there are any questions you have on
that, we'd be glad to go into it in more detail
because right now all we have is the two
sentences really that you might've seen in the
press. Besides that, the two main focus of the
study groups have been dealing with what to do in
various places in China and what to do in various
places on the environment and climate. On both
areas, there's emerging consensus on a variety of
things, both which do involve the Bank.
They haven't come out yet, so we're
not going to get into them. But the point is you
will be seeing more of the type of announcements
you saw in the last couple of days relating to
supply chain and the ways that the administration
sees to use the capacities of the Bank. Besides
that, you'll hear today from Adam Frost relating
to how we have spelled out so far the China
program.
But keep in mind that my words so far
are important there. We have something we can
tell you today. But with a lot of things going
on, that may update that considerably.
Besides that, we are beginning to see
an uptick in business in general. We are also
beginning to hear that there will soon be more
administration folks running around the halls of
the Bank, and I mean that literally in the sense
of it is probably within this quarter. I don't
mean the one ending, the one about to begin, that
the Bank will re-inhabit some parts of the
building.
So there's quite a few things that are
going to change our dynamic from other the past
year that are going to happen in the next few
months. And that's an overview. Chris, if I've
forgotten anything, feel free to add in.
MR. VAN ES: No, nothing that you
missed, Jim. And I think I'm happy to transition
into the administration update. I know Hazeen
Ashby who is our SVP for Congressional and
Intergov is at a meeting on energy policy right
now, and so she was unable to make it. But I
think from the administration front, energy and
climate change is, I think, very much at the top
of mind to cross the administration.
Yeah, we announced earlier in end of
May -- excuse me, beginning of May, end of April
around the climate -- the President's Climate
Summit, the formation of a Chair's Council on
Climate. I think we're focusing very, very hard
on what we can be doing to, on one hand, support
greater investment in renewables and I think
carry on the long history that EXIM has in
supporting environmentally beneficial U.S.
exports, and on the other, I think trying to
figure out within our existing charge on what
more we can be doing around issues related to
climate change.
So I think I describe us at the very
beginning of this journey. I think we will be
turning to many of you for your thoughts and
expertise on how and where and in what ways EXIM
is charting a course. But I think suffice it say
that we view this and the entire administration
views this as a very, very important priority.
And I think that you're seeing at the
cabinet level, at the White House level that
issues around -- climate issues around ensuring
that American jobs and American innovations are
spurring the global move towards net zero is
going to be a huge priority for us. So climate
and energy is number one. Jim and I both
mentioned the issues around domestic financing
and supply chains and expect there will be more
activity around that.
And then I think -- just more broadly,
I think we're focused on trying to expand and
diversify the Bank's portfolio. Coming out of
the re-authorization that Congress gave us a
higher small business target to hit, I think we
want to not just hit that but exceed it. And so
I think we're thinking through how we can do
that. And then just more broadly, I think figure
out how we can fulfill the Bank's charter and I
think drive a new chapter in the agency's
history.
So the one thing that I will mention
in terms of kind of where we are in the calendar,
as this is the last meeting of this iteration of
the SAAC, we will be concluding this chapter and
then opening applications for the next iteration
of the SAAC in July. Obviously, we'd welcome
folks applying to be a part of it. And I think
if you're especially interested or you'd like to
talk further, happy to talk one on one. But
certainly, I thank you for all of the time that
you've given over the past year. I will stop
there but of course happy to answer any questions
related to the administration and the broad
policy priorities that are starting to take
shape.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: So Chris, it's Dan
Runde. Could you speak to the issue of digital
connectivity? There's been several things we've
done through the SAAC looking at sort of, what
does the COVID mean for Africa in particular?
It seems to me one of the big
takeaways is we've had a digital divide exposed
everywhere, both in the United States and around
the world. And there's been an explosion in use
of digital, not just in the United States but all
over the world, including in Africa. And so I
think a big part of -- the big opportunity for
the United States and American industry is on
this issue of helping close that digital divide.
It's a development challenge. It's
also a business opportunity. I'm sure the
administration has begun to give some thought to
the issue of helping close the digital divide in
Africa. I'd welcome any thoughts you have about
that.
MR. VAN ES: Yes, I think is the short
answer. I mean, I think we could -- you could
take that conversation I think in any number of
ways. I mean, I think you have issues around 5G
and semiconductors and supply chains.
And I think that conversation is very
much happening at the policy level. And Jim
knows more about this stuff than anybody. And so
I'd welcome his input here too.
But I think the short answer to your
question is yes. I think that is very much a
part of the administration's thinking. And while
recognizing again that you could have, I think,
an entire two and a half hour conversation on how
and the number of ways to close the digital
divide.
MEMBER ENONCHONG: Sorry.
(Simultaneous speaking.)
MEMBER ENONCHONG: This is Rebecca.
MR. VAN ES: -- Paul Sullivan.
MEMBER ENONCHONG: Sorry.
(Simultaneous speaking.)
MR. VAN ES: No, go ahead, Rebecca.
MEMBER ENONCHONG: Hi, any way to be
more specific about that because that's my hat
here. And I'm really concerned about the
traction the U.S. is losing on the continent.
MR. VAN ES: Specific about the
digital divide?
MEMBER ENONCHONG: Yeah, what the
administration or the EXIM Bank is planning. You
said there were a number of initiatives, and if
you could be a little bit more specific about
what they are.
MR. VAN ES: Well, I don't have
anything to announce today. But I think for
EXIM, I think at least related to the 5G space
and the semiconductor space, I think one of the
big issues that we are trying to get around is
content and I think trying to figure out in some
of these industries issues related to content
requirement. Obviously, the transformational
export program has given us different and greater
flexibility. But I think the answer -- I think
my answer to your question is that I think we're
really trying to chart the space. And I think
we're having a lot of policy conversations about
what barriers exist for EXIM and other agencies
to play a role in that space and how we overcome
them.
MEMBER SULLIVAN: Chris, this is Paul
Sullivan. I'm with Acrow Bridge. We do a lot of
exporting through Export-Import Bank of the
United States.
I'm hearing in your opening remarks a
reference to the existing charter and how to work
with that charter, a charter that is pretty
outdated with respect to the innovation that's
occurred with ECAs, particularly as it relates to
implementing projects in Africa, whether it be
tenor, long-term tenors, grace periods, or
implementation periods, whatever you want to call
it. It's really important for exporters to get
an understanding of where EXIM is going to go.
Where can it go in supporting SMEs who export to
Africa and develop these projects when they're
competing against 20-year tenors, et cetera?
MR. VAN ES: Yeah, I think it's a good
question. And I think we're -- I'll say a couple
things. I think, one, we're very much, I think,
in a transition period, and I think right now
we're, in part, focused on getting the agency
staffed up. I think -- and I want to acknowledge
our board member, Judith Pryor, who's here who I
think has been a great leader in this space and
would welcome any comments from here.
And I think we're trying to get
ourselves staffed up and fully get a team on
board. And we'll, at some point, need to get a
chair nominated, confirmed by the Senate. And I
think as we do that, I think we'll be looking at
the policies that we have and opportunities
around within our existing charter and other
barriers that you talked about.
MEMBER SULLIVAN: Well, it's
important, and this issue is so important because
what we're seeing are a lot of companies
basically moving their operations to Europe
basically because the ECAs of Europe are
absolutely evolving to the pace of innovation.
And it's not just China, although that's
obviously the elephant in the room in most of
these conversations. It's everywhere.
As everyone is aware, there's 85-plus
ECAs. They are taking new structures toward the
realities of project implementation across the
continent. And since so much in Africa is based
on infrastructure which has a lot of these long-
term project cycles, it's just something that
really needs to be examined.
And this is our last meeting as a part
of the SAAC. And I think it would be almost
irresponsible if we did not issue that dire
warning that out there in the project development
workspace, people are viewing EXIM as not a
player on the garden variety projects because
they just don't -- they're not participating in
these kinds of innovative structures. And
usually it's because the charter itself or at
least the implementation flexibility is just not
there.
And I know that it sounds like the
administration in the midst of a transition.
It's important that transition takes place. But
I think EXIM Bank is not just having these kinds
of meetings, but individually reaching out to
exporters, the folks on this committee to ask
detailed questions about whether it's
transactional or otherwise.
What are these barriers and how can we
overcome them? And how can that result in some
sort of amendment to the charter or some kind of
policy and procedures shift, because we're just
not there. And we are seeing a massive shift in
where folks locate their operations if something
doesn't change soon.
MEMBER NEDELCOVYCH: Chairman Runde --
(Simultaneous speaking.)
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Yes, sir.
MEMBER NEDELCOVYCH: -- I have a
question. I plan to opine I agree 200 percent --
(Simultaneous speaking.)
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Yes, sir, Mima.
MEMBER NEDELCOVYCH: -- all the
speakers and then come back to comments? Or
should we --
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Yeah, I think --
MEMBER NEDELCOVYCH: -- comment after
--
(Simultaneous speaking.)
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: -- the assumption was
-- and I think, Chris, what we might do is we
might perhaps come -- because there's lots of
things we -- there's a number of different Q&A
that we want to do, Chris. Do you have a view on
that, Chris?
MR. VAN ES: No, no, no. I think I
want to be -- I'm happy to answer questions as
long as people have them. But I do want to make
sure that we get through the agenda.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Thank you, Mima, for
that. I think it's very important that we get to
all these questions, and I promise that we'll
have enough time to do that. But let's get
through some of the presentations, and I promise
we'll save at least 30 to 45 minutes.
Thank you, Mima, for flagging that.
Yes, sir. So Chris, if we might, I would suggest
we -- I know that it was going to be -- Hazeen
was going to present. But if I understand,
Chris, you kind of just covered that material for
her. Is that correct?
MR. VAN ES: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Okay. So I think we
ought to go to the next part of the -- the next
presenter which I think is from -- I believe it's
the -- it's another professional from the EXIM
staff.
MR. VAN ES: Adam Frost is going to
give an update --
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Adam Frost --
MR. VAN ES: -- on the --
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: -- talking about the
China work. Adam?
MR. FROST: Thank you, Daniel. So
it's such a pleasure to have a short window here
to brief the Sub-Saharan Africa Advisory
Committee. I can't tell you how valuable the
China committee is to what we're trying to do in
CTEP. But I can only imagine what I'm going to
hear from you today is going to be just as
valuable. So my thanks for the opportunity.
I warn you. I was raised by the
Defense Department, so I did bring slides. So
what I will do is pull up a couple slides and
walk through less than ten minutes.
My goal is really just to give an
update on where the program is. And I think if I
could challenge this group with some of the hard
questions we're wrestling with to get at some of
the very issues we just raised about the digital
divide and innovating in ECA space. So with
that, of course, can everyone see a set of
slides?
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Yes.
MR. FROST: Thank you. So in the name
of updates, folks who are familiar, I know
everyone is, I will go very quickly. But when
EXIM was re-authorized in December of 2019, the
China transformational export program was part of
the new mandate in the charter with sort of a
two-part mission. And it's important to keep an
eye on both of those.
And the first one is to directly
neutralize the competing subsidies provided by
the PRC through the PRC through their official
export credit, tied aid, et cetera. And the
other part is to advance U.S. comparative
leadership with respect to transformational
export areas which you see sort of listed out on
the right and to highlight that we have a goal.
It's not a requirement but a goal of reserving
about 20 percent of our authorized financing,
approximately 27 billion towards that end to help
U.S. exporters. And I think that's where the
Africa conversation really does come into play.
A brief update on where we are is a
lot of blocking and tackling that we're putting
together in the program here, working with
colleagues across EXIM. And I have to tell you
what a great time it is to be here, what a great
team it is at EXIM to partner with. We're trying
to do a lot of the operationalization.
How do we implement these things, the
hard work that the civil servants have to do to
make sure we meet the intent as laid out by
Congress about definitions, about making sure our
responsibilities are met. We're spending a
decent amount of time trying to improve our
interagency integration. You may be -- I'm sure
everyone is very aware, but competition with the
People's Republic is sort of bleeding into all
elements of national policy.
And so it's incumbent on us to make
sure we're working closely with our colleagues
across the interagency to make sure that what
EXIM does is net beneficial for the United States
and its citizens. We're spending a lot of time
managing ourselves. And we're getting ready to
do another relaunch of more about EXIM can do
today.
But as the China program, I'd be
remiss -- I think you'll get more information
like this today. But I know the last time that
the SAAC was briefed, there was sort of an update
on China and Africa. I believe that you're going
to get some more briefings today that cover a
wider range of that.
But I did want to highlight that, A,
I'd be remiss if I didn't show statistics on a
briefing. But the other part is that these are
EXIM's definitions. This is coming from the high
speed team at OPAIR, Office of Policy Analysis
and International Relations, who do track these
things for our annual report. And they're making
sure -- so this is sort of EXIM's picture. And I
think it's telling you in statistics and words
what everybody on this call already knows
intimately, right, which is China is a large
player in Africa.
And while some of the numbers may be
dropping off in 2019 and I would expect we'll see
a drop in 2020 due to COVID among other things,
they are by far and away one of the dominant
players in the infrastructure sector. And as we
think about this question of U.S. competition,
EXIM's role in it, one of the reasons I was so
excited to come talk to the SAAC today was
precisely because these questions of Africa as
one of these -- the playing fields on which the
U.S. has to compete is very, very important to us
at EXIM. And I appreciate your guidance on how
to deal with it.
And so with that, I thought what I
wanted to do is leave you with a hard question
and a hard challenge, right, which is we inside
the Bank try to think about how do we compete in
Africa against the PRC for the benefit of U.S.
exporters, the African population, the population
in Sub-Saharan Africa, and the American taxpayer.
We know China is active. And we know that the
Sub-Saharan African nations have a low default
rate with EXIM.
But we also know that a lot of the
sovereign and risk ratings of African nations is
a little bit higher, right? So how do we start
thinking about how we balance across these
tensions, because on the one hand, EXIM has its
requirements for reasonable assurance of
repayment. And we look at it for good credits in
riskier markets.
But a lot of these Sub-Saharan African
nations for reasons that are far beyond my
comprehension do have a number of challenges that
make them higher sovereign risks. So how do we
balance between these issues? And how do we find
ways as EXIM to think through the issues to
better support the policy goals?
So that's my rapid fire update for you
on the China program. And I, of course, look
forward to the Q&A chunk after this. And I will
rapidly try to unshare slides.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Great. I do think
this is an important enough topic, it'd be worth
-- thanks for going through them quickly. It'd
be worth taking one or two questions from the
SAAC now specific to this presentation. So are
there SAAC members that want to ask some specific
questions or respond directly to Adam's question?
(Simultaneous speaking.)
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Sorry. Don't all
speak at once. Let me start with Rebecca. And
then Rebecca, you go ahead and I'll pick one
other after that, please, Rebecca.
MEMBER ENONCHONG: Hi, thanks. I just
wanted to know, you said that SSA has a low
default rate with EXIM. Are there any particular
countries that stand out as to the low or high or
is it pretty much across the board?
MR. FROST: You know, ma'am, you're
asking unfortunately not the expert on this
topic, I'd say. So I'd be going off of memory.
It seemed to be as a region, SSA. So about 29
countries or so that EXIM counts as SSA seem to
be pretty low. But I'll defer to some of my
colleagues who are on the phone if they have more
specifics. But it did seem to be a general broad
low default rate.
MEMBER ENONCHONG: Okay.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Lori, please. Lori
Helmers.
MEMBER HELMERS: Yes, absolutely. So
thank you. Has EXIM Bank been giving
consideration to the type or level of evidence
that U.S. suppliers need to provide evidenced
competition from China, because I know that's an
issue that's commonly raised among the suppliers
that we usually work with as to the type or level
of evidence that is required show --
MR. FROST: Yeah.
MEMBER HELMERS: -- EXIM Bank there is
competition from China.
MR. FROST: Oh, yes, ma'am. You're
asking one of the great questions. We wrestle
with this all the time, the smoking gun question,
right? Are we asking U.S. exporters to show up
with an email signed by Xi Jinping himself that
says, we will give unfair rates, terms, and
conditions in order to qualify.
The short answer is no. We understand
the expectations that sometimes we're lucky and
we'll get that kind of information which we did
recently in the Senegal Weldy Lamont transaction.
We had very clear evidence of Chinese
competition.
But we know in other cases, I use this
term cautiously, but we call it more
circumstantial evidence as in we partner with our
colleagues in OPAIR. We look at the historical
record of what the People's Republic has done in
that country. And we look for other evidence
provided by the exporters, and we make a judgment
based on that and other information we're able to
glean from inside the government.
And my team is responsible for making
sure that we find the happy medium here because I
think it is a poor posture to take if we say we
require absolute information in ironclad cases
every time. But recognize that sort of the more
flexibility the export is asking for in the name
of China competition, the more evidence we're
going to kind of be looking for because you are
asking us to go on a limb for some of these
things. Is that helpful, ma'am?
MEMBER HELMERS: It is. Thanks, Adam.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Mima?
MEMBER NEDELCOVYCH: Thank you,
Chairman. Just a quick comment, and I think
we'll have further discussion later. But you
asked, Adam, about how can we help get more
competitive. I go back to history for those that
don't remember.
But initially, Chinese EXIM banks were
called policy banks. Basically, the Bank used to
drive policy. So the real question at some point
is going to be in the interagency discussion is
that, yes, you need to have ability to return the
loan.
However, this discussion is going to
be with Treasury and how you rate these countries
versus how other ECAs rate them. And I come back
exactly to the point that Paul raised to begin
with. There's an internal discussion of what is
the purpose and how far do you flex that term of
reasonable ability to repay? That's English
language, very good. Reasonable has got a big
range. So I'll stop there. Thank you.
MR. FROST: Yes, sir. That was very
helpful.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Adam, I think we
should probably end it here. And I know we've
got other presentations we need to get through.
MR. FROST: Yeah, can do. I'll be
online if there are later questions during the
conversation.
MEMBER YOMI-AJAYI: I do have a
question. I had my had hand up.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Oh, I'm sorry, Sola.
I missed it. Please go ahead.
MEMBER YOMI-AJAYI: No, that's fine.
So Adam, my question is -- well, it's a couple of
questions in one actually. So you did mention
the fact that Africa has a low default ratio,
right? And I was wondering how the risk rating -
- which is very low. You did say 22 countries
out of 29 where BCL rates have 9 to 11. How has
this affected the competitiveness of EXIM and
vis-a-vis the low default risk rating is the
scope to review the risk rating methodology
because if --
(Simultaneous speaking.)
MEMBER YOMI-AJAYI: -- that is
considered to be very risky but the default rate
has been really low. Is the risk rating
methodology a current one? Does it need to be
treated to reflect other concentrations? What do
we need to do to make EXIM more competitive from
this perspective?
MR. FROST: Yes, ma'am. That is a
great question. I will do my best if my
colleagues will make sure I don't convey any
erroneous information. I put it up on the slide
just to differentiate in that the risk rating,
the sovereign risk rating known as the Budget
Control Level, the BCL ratings.
That's a large interagency process
chaired by OMB that EXIM is a participant in and
it's sort of the -- they set the sovereign risk
ratings across the government. The low default
rate is with respect only to EXIM loans that
we've conducted over the last -- I think the
period of what's outstanding in the region. And
so while it would seem reasonable to say, well,
hey, shouldn't the two sort of talk to each
other?
And the reality is that the larger
process is going to look at EXIM as a subset of
risk factors when rolling up sort of the overall
sovereign risk. I know it's very much tied to
IMF processes and sort of IMF data. And so I
pause there to say this is sort of the Gordian
knot. We need sort of big thinking and help
working through which is you have multiple
different processes.
And we could say, well, okay, we just
need to change the process and then we can change
some of the risk ratings. But there's a long
policy tale that comes with that sort of
approach. Or then perhaps other innovations that
folks like me aren't smart enough to think of
that you would be -- other ways that EXIM could
start balancing those tensions inside the
organization. Hopefully that's helpful, ma'am.
I'm glad to continue the conversation.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: I think we should --
(Simultaneous speaking.)
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: -- move on from here.
I know there's other things we need to cover, but
I would suggest we ought to move on. Deniece
Laurent-Mantey is here who's a Director for
Southern Africa from the NSC. And Deniece, we're
really glad you would take time out of your very
busy schedule to be with us. Thank you for being
here.
MS. LAURENT-MANTEY: Thank you. Can
you all hear me okay? I was having some issues
earlier. Okay, awesome. Thank you all so much
for having me, and I'm delighted to share with
you just a preview of what we've been working on
here at the National Security Council.
I cover the Southern Africa portfolio
but also in general the trade investment
portfolio and also working on a couple of
presidential initiatives that we hope to be going
out very soon. So I will just give a brief
overview on a couple of things we're working on,
our priorities, and then maybe just leave it
there for a couple questions. So the United
States has partnered with Sub-Saharan Africa, as
you all know, for decades, working alongside
African governments, regional institutions, civil
society, and others on the continent to foster
opportunities and address challenges.
As we look to build back better, both
here and at home and around the world, we're at
an inflection point which requires us to
reexamine our engagement with Africa. Just over
the last 20 years, we've leveraged private
capital worth billions of dollars to bring online
thousands of megawatts of new generation
capacity, electrifying millions of African homes
and businesses throughout Power Africa
initiative, investing in sustainable developments
such as Feed the Future, our Global Health
Initiative, MCC, and others. Also supporting
trade and investment in Africa worth billions of
dollars through our AGOA initiative as well,
we've saved more than seven million lives and
prevented more than a billion cases of malaria in
22 countries across Africa through our PMI
initiative, invested over 85 billion in global
HIV/AIDS response, saving 20 million lives,
preventing millions of HIV infections across the
continent as we try to control the global HIV
pandemic -- epidemic.
We've also strengthened our YALI
program, our Young African Leaders Initiative,
which this past year celebrated over ten years of
YALI, deepened our engagement with Africa's next
generation of leaders. And we hope to continue
our YALI program and provide more funding for
that as well. We strengthened our democratic
institutions through high levels of engagement
and we hope to do more.
The President has spoken to President
Kenyatta. VPOTUS has also spoken to the head of
the African Union, and we hope to increase our
high level engagement here at the White House as
well. We work with our partners and allies to
advance peace and security and mitigate and
prevent conflicts, including supporting
peacekeeping operations across the continent and
assisting in professionalizing African security
forces from Sudan, South Sudan, to Somalia,
billions of dollars in humanitarian assistance to
address needs and build the resilience of
populations across Africa to combat COVID-19,
Ebola, famine, and also our crisis in Tigray in
Ethiopia.
That said, we need to acknowledge that
we still have a long way to go, and the Biden-
Harris administration is revitalizing our
engagement with African countries in order to
advance our shared values and interests. African
countries are looking for a new type of
partnership with the United States that reflects
mutual respect. And an Africa that is more
connected and with greater capacity would be
better positioned to cooperate with the United
States to meet global challenges and advance
shared interest and values.
As you begin this next chapter, we
seek to be an ever more willing credible partner
to Africa's governments and its people. In the
trade investment space, we seek to help U.S. and
African companies advance new trade and
investment opportunities to make it easier for
businesses to access U.S. government support for
their transactions and to promote business
climate reform across the continent. Our efforts
will not only be aimed at specific deals, but we
also will look at broadly improving the enabling
environment in African nations which will open
the door for future investment and trade
opportunities for U.S. and African businesses.
U.S. small and medium-sized
businesses, including diaspora-owned and women-
owned businesses, are critical players in this
effort. We want to ensure that the United States
and African businesses encounter less needless
duplication and red tape and more effective
delivery of U.S. government services that may
open new opportunities. You want to make it
clear to the U.S. private sector that Africa is
open for business by connecting and messaging
opportunities in Africa to U.S. companies.
Looking forward, we want to project an
affirmative agenda towards Africa based on shared
interest and values. In President Biden's
message to the African Union, he made it very
clear that we stand ready to be a partner in
solidarity, support, and mutual respect. We hope
this will serve to build African capacity and
provide economic opportunities to the American
middle class as well, a key component to
delivering on President Biden's Build Back Better
approach.
To name a few, we have already
finalized a re-imagined Prosper Africa strategy.
We have revitalized that and come to an agreement
on our new Prosper Africa strategy which aligns
with the strategic priorities of our interim
national security guidance and serves as a
centerpiece for U.S. economic and commercial
engagement in Africa. And we hope to launch the
implementation process for Prosper Africa very,
very soon.
On the other side, we're also ready to
support the Africa Continental Free Trade
Agreement and looking at post-AGOA framework and
how we can expand partnerships with big and small
businesses is also at the core of our U.S.
economic and commercial engagement. We are also
in the works of developing a digital Africa
initiative. I know early on there was many
discussions about the digital space on the
continent, and we're hoping that we'll have more
to share on this presidential initiative that
we'll be proposing very, very soon to help
African partners digitize and monetize their
technology architecture.
We're also working with Power Africa
to address challenges caused by urbanization and
climate change and looking at ways on how we can
deliver renewable energy to the continent and
also provide jobs for the American middle class.
As you know, climate change is a key priority for
this administration. And in April, leaders from
the DRC, Gabon, Kenya, Nigeria, Rwanda,
Seychelles, and South Africa participated in the
virtual leaders summit on climate hosted by
President Biden.
So with that, I will stop here and
answer any questions that you may have. We are
ready to also hear from you all any
recommendations that you might have regarding our
Africa priorities. We hope to have more
information announcements out pretty soon. Thank
you.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Okay. Thank you,
Deniece, for taking time out of your very busy
schedule. Let's do a couple of quick questions.
Very encouraging remarks. Thank you so much.
Lori, would you like to go first and then Mima?
MEMBER CAMPBELL: How about me, Dan,
as well? Derek Campbell here.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Oh, Derek. I can't
see you. Derek, why don't we go first. Excuse
me. My screen --
MEMBER CAMPBELL: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: -- stinks. Now I see
you. Derek, why don't you go ahead.
MEMBER CAMPBELL: Yeah, you got it.
And again, my camera is not working, so
apologies. But Deniece, great overview.
Appreciate it.
I'm a guy who works on the continent
pretty extensively. This issue about climate
change, and I know you've heard this before,
right? Understand the U.S. initiatives on
climate change, but we're talking about rolling
out renewable climate change effective platforms
in a continental environment where people don't

have any light.
And I know that's probably been talked
about at the administration. But there really is
a sense of energy poverty in Africa. And I
really think that there are U.S. companies who --
whether they be from the oil and gas background
or maybe from nuclear power who could add a lot
of value in Africa to this energy poverty
situation to help change really the vector that
the continent is going down which is, hey, a lot
of promise, a lot of talk.
But there is a lot of
industrialization and/or energy available to help
that industrialization so that those countries on
the continent become very effective participating
partners in a global economy, right? And so I
know that climate change is important. But I
really would like the NSC to take just one small
look and say, hey, we're dealing with a continent
that has a severe sense of energy poverty.
We can't ask them to embrace all of
this renewable climate change in air quotes kind
of methodologies when there's not baseload power
with those methodologies. And so there are U.S.
companies who have solutions for that. EXIM can
help those companies get to Africa and export
some of their technology, some training, and some
services.
But we have to be realistic about what
as an administration, as a government we need to
do. And that is, one, help people where they
are, right? And let's get them to a point where,
no kidding, we can help them be participatory in
a global economy and that is helping this energy
-- this issue of energy poverty which impacts the
entire continent from Egypt all the way down to
South Africa, from Kenya to Sierra Leone.
And so with that, I just want there to
be some consideration, some talk, some discussion
about this issue of pushing this climate change
initiative in Africa when it doesn't really help
us as a nation meet people where they are. Does
that make sense, Deniece? Or am I in left field
there?
MS. LAURENT-MANTEY: Yeah. No, I
think it makes sense. I think for us, our
approach is to just keep in mind that we
shouldn't neglect the fact that I think in Africa
there still are a number of countries and still a
number of places that need that support when it
comes to energy poverty, right?
And so we shouldn't disregard that for
a climate change agenda. I think it's ensuring
that we keep a balanced approach while we
continue to roll out some of these renewable
energy programs because we do see great
opportunities on the continent for this, right?
And so I think it's important to keep in mind
that while we do that, we shouldn't neglect the
fact that there are some pretty serious concerns
as it relates to energy poverty and in particular
areas of the continent.
MEMBER CAMPBELL: Yeah, and I think
EXIM can help that by helping some of these
companies who are maybe going out of business
here in the United States who are maybe more
hydrocarbon-based. Hey, giving them an
opportunity to push some of their best practices
over to Africa to help these countries deal with
this energy poverty directly. That's just my
thought. Thanks, Dan.
MS. LAURENT-MANTEY: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Thanks, sir.
MS. LAURENT-MANTEY: Thank you for
that.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Okay. One other,
please. Mima, you've had a chance to speak. Is
there someone in the committee that hasn't had a
chance? Otherwise, I'll turn to you, Mima.
MEMBER OKPA: Hi, Dan. Edward Okpa,
I have been --
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Okay. Edward, go
ahead.
MEMBER OKPA: -- wanting to ask a
question. Talking about everybody use the phrase
that it's energy deficiency as opposed to energy
poverty. I think one of the things that happens
in Africa is we take this global approach without
being specific.
So part of the challenge is power
transmission. Some of the transmission
infrastructure is dated and it's not able to get
power to where people actually need it. So --
and then another challenge is some of the African
countries are very small in order to embrace
major infrastructure investment in power.
So would there be a consideration to
do a proximity regional power development whereby
use the case of Hoover Dam, so three states in
America? Is there a way to get some like Sierra
Leone, Liberia, Cote D'Ivoire? Countries like
that are very small and say, hey, you guys need
to look at regional power authority as opposed to
try to do it country by country.
I think that will go a long way. So
I prefer issue of power deficiency. Nigeria
built their first power plant 14 years after U.S.
They have a lot of power, where they have
challenge transmitting the power. So is there
anything EXIM can do the policy people look at
grouping those countries together to help them
get this thing done?
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Deniece?
MS. LAURENT-MANTEY: No, I think it's
a great point. As our climate experts on this
along with Power Africa and other folks, I think
it's a valid concern to look at it regionally,
especially when talking about the smaller
countries like Liberia, Sierra Leone, and others.
And so I'd be happy to sort of put EXIM folks or
some of the experts and see how we can sort of
work together on that front.
MEMBER OKPA: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Deniece, we know
you're really busy and we want to be respectful
of your time. And I know we need to keep moving
on. We thank you so much for your service, and
we should move on to the next speaker which is
Camille Richardson, who's a Deputy Assistant
Secretary at the International Trade
Administration. Camille?
MS. RICHARDSON: Thank you so much.
Good afternoon, EXIM Sub-Saharan Africa Advisory
Committee. And thank you so much to the
committee members, Chairman Runde, Director
Pryor, and the EXIM Bank for having me speak to
you today. So your committee members, your
expertise is invaluable in informing the
development of U.S. government activities to
support commercial interaction between the United
States and African countries.
So I want to start by saying thank you
for your efforts and congratulations to EXIM Bank
for having organized such an experienced group of
advisors. So in case you weren't aware, EXIM and
Commerce have a very, very close partnership.
And with my bureau at Commerce which is the
International Trade Administration, or ITA, we're
natural partners.
I'd just like to share some of the
major initiatives and work streams that we have
underway and invite your questions and creative
thinking today and going forward around points of
intersection among Commerce and EXIM programs and
tools and your role as advisors to the Bank. So
to start, I'd like to note that this committee is
a critical component to the President's Advisory
Council on Doing Business in Africa or PAC-DBIA
which the Secretary of Commerce administers on
behalf of the President. The PAC-DBIA is
comprised of C suite level executives from U.S.
companies and is tasked with providing analysis
and recommendations to the President on
strengthening U.S. commercial engagement with
Africa.
The PAC-DBIA runs on two-year terms,
and the last term just ended this past Sunday.
So we have been recruiting furiously for the next
term. And the application for media
consideration on the FR notice closes on June
25th. And my colleague, Fred, who is our
Director of Office of Africa, Fred Stewart has
just popped up linking to the chat for your
information.
So the PAC-DBIA's recommendations may
address part of -- any part of the U.S.
government. And we have actually had several
recommendations over the years directed to EXIM,
some of which have been taken up and implemented.
And we are always grateful for the active
participation of our EXIM colleagues in the
entire process. We also partner often with Scott
over at the Chamber -- at the U.S. Chamber and
with Florie over at CCA on Africa events that are
related to the PAC-DBIA and both Acrow Bridge and
Caterpillar were represented on the last term of
the Council.
And I don't really have a clear
recommendation right now on how the work of this
committee may intersect with the work of the PAC-
DBIA. But I think that there is clear potential
synergy and I invite your thinking and thoughts
and questions on that. So I'll take --
(Simultaneous speaking.)
MS. RICHARDSON: -- a little bit of a
step --
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: I'd love to give Mima
-- would you like to have a chance, Mima?
MEMBER NEDELCOVYCH: Yes, very much
so, and thank you, Camille. No, I mean, we've
been working on the continent over 50 years now
and very much with ITA and FCS, top off my head,
and advocacy groups. And it's a very, very neat
effort when you tie together ITA with EXIM Bank
on major projects working on solar power as you
are in Angola. So I think this is a really
critical part of the whole effort at the end, and
it really is tied into very much the Chief of
Mission, the ambassador in the country basically
--
MS. RICHARDSON: Absolutely.
MEMBER NEDELCOVYCH: -- applying that
kind of pressure, because in the end, most of the
decisions, whether we like it or not, when you're
talking major projects, EXIM really needs to play
the game and wind up in the President's office.
There's only one person who calls the President.
It's not necessarily the FCS commercial officer.
It is the ambassadors. I think that cross
dissemination is absolutely essential. I think
that's what I really wanted to say.
MS. RICHARDSON: Thank you so much for
highlighting that, sir. As many of you may
already be aware, there actually is a trade
promotion coordinating committee of 17 different
agencies across the U.S. government that we work
with as the lead USG trade promotion agency for
U.S. exports abroad and inbound foreign direct
investment. So the Secretary of Commerce
actually chairs that committee and sits on EXIM's
board.
But we take that charge very
seriously. And we know that as a small agency
that kind of operates on a shoe string, having
partners across the U.S. government as well as
the private sector is extremely important to us.
We have our commercial diplomacy function. We
had our advocacy function.
We have our fee-based services where
we're able to provide information and contacts
and facilitate the types of resources that
private sector needs, information, for example,
to make informed business decisions. And then of
course, we're there on the ground with our
partners at State. We're in eight commercial
posts in Sub-Saharan Africa and our partner posts
throughout the continent help us to leverage and
expand that network in order to offer some of the
same services that Commerce offers through our
state partner posts.
But really, I think I want to just
take a second because I have a whole set of
remarks which I won't really go through other
than to emphasize that EXIM is with us every step
of the way, whether it's here in headquarters,
out in our U.S. field where we have 106 offices,
staff who are trade specialists. And EXIM is co-
located with us strategically in the United
States. And then of course, we are often the
eyes and ears for EXIM Bank on various deals.
Some of you may have heard about our
embassy deal teams, and that is a way in which
we're able to really focus U.S. government
resources in a strategic way around specific
transactions. And we've actually met with a
great deal of success there. But what we're
actually thinking about and what we'd love to get
your input and questions on is creating a new
commercial strategy for Africa that is based on
the President's call to treat Africa as a
partner, very smart call, particularly as the
global pandemic has reset a lot of economies, has
really created a tremendous amount of devastation
and supply chain disruption, you name it.
And at Commerce, we're actually
focusing on those companies that have been
hardest hit by the pandemic, the minority-owned
companies, the women-owned businesses, the
diaspora businesses. So what we're going to do
is we're going to launch a national listening
tour. We read the papers that our friends inside
the Beltway produce avidly, and we consider that.
But we also want to get direct inputs
from our SME clients, our small and medium-sized
enterprises, who might be able to leverage a lot
of these resources or might have other ideas
about how those resources could be structured in
such a way that would be useful for building this
new partnership with Africa. One such program
that we've actually launched fairly recently,
we've nicknamed WELLTI and it's focused on women-
owned businesses.
And it's an acronym, and it stands for
Women Empowered Leave Legacies Through Trade and
Investment. Or we have African women
entrepreneurs essentially tell their stories, how
they've overcome various challenges by trading
and investing with the United States. Women on
this side are then raising their hands saying,
hey, we'd love to do business with you.
We then facilitate that with
matchmaking. We'd certainly love to build this
program out and to combine it with some of the
other great programs we've been hearing about
from the State Department and AID and other
agencies and as well with the private sector. I
was just on a virtual visit to Nigeria yesterday
and heard with great interest about how some of
the U.S. companies out there in the field are
doing very creative things to support female
entrepreneurship.
And the objective here is to provide
women with the information data resources,
partners, the connections such that they are
going from being hardest hit by the pandemic to
basically being on the vanguard and helping to
lead the charge to economic recovery. So we're
doing a series of monthly events with this. We
are doing our coffee chats.
I'm doing my virtual visits. And we
are on what I'm calling a march to March, and
that is our Trade Winds event which will happen
in Dubai March 6th through 8th, three-day
business forum, trade mission, WELLTI event
culminating on International Women's Day on March
8th. So any public-private thoughts around this,
contributions in terms of ideas, contacts,
resources would be very much appreciated.
I could go on and on and on. But I
will just highlight two other things. One is in
terms of our focus -- well, maybe three other
things. Our commercial strategy for Africa, as
you probably know, we have several MOUs in place.
I think we have them in six countries right now,
and they've had varying degrees of success.
I know we're looking at how they
should be structures as we're going to re-up
them. So feedback there would be very much
appreciated. Also just for your information, we
are highly focused on six priority sectors which
would include ICT digital and I did hear the
remark on digital with great interest.
I've been conferring with my
colleague, Akunna Cook, over at State. We think
a U.S.-Africa digital summit could be very
interesting at some point in the future. Energy,
of course, is another one, whether it's green
energy or traditional energy.
Of course, we're waiting for guidance
on the traditional carbon side front. But energy
is clearly a big sector of focus.
Infrastructure, you can't have anything happen
without infrastructure and clearly supply chain
logistics are tied to transportation
infrastructure.
Health care, can't miss out on health
care, clearly a key to productivity and
recovering from the pandemic. Agribusiness
because food security, of course, is highly
important in Africa. And then where it comes in
to the picture, aerospace and defense, and
obviously security is a subset of that.
So the last thing that I'll highlight
for you which I think will be very interesting
for you to hear about is a new trade lead tool
that we have been developing with a private
contractor that is Salesforce-based. We're
calling it ELMIA, another one of our fun acronyms
which stands for Express Leads Middle East
Africa. And through this tool, we are seeking to
position U.S. companies ahead of the procurement
process.
We want them in the space where China
and Europe are already playing with the wining
and the dining and the relationship building. So
before anything ever gets to a tender, we're
actually able to get a hold of and qualify these
leads and push them out right now to a smaller
audience of about three or four thousand
companies in the United States. It's been highly
successful so far.
We'll be looking to expand it
worldwide eventually. Of course, these things
take resources, but we are certainly looking
forward to moving forward in partnership with
EXIM and partnership with our other sister
agencies and partnership with the private sector.
And of course, all of this is being captured and
will be put under an easy to access portal that
is being put together by Prosper Africa.
My colleague, Anne Womer, will speak
about that and some of the other things that are
going on under that rubric. With that, I will
stop. And thank you --
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Camille, could you
take --
MS. RICHARDSON: -- very much for your
time.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: -- one last question
from Florie Liser?
MS. RICHARDSON: I would love to take
a question from Florie. Hi, Florie. You're
muted, Florie.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Florie?
MS. RICHARDSON: You're on mute,
Florie.
(Simultaneous speaking.)
MS. RICHARDSON: There you go.
MEMBER LISER: My apologies. Just a
very quick question. Actually, I was just
looking at the most recent PAC-DBIA
recommendations largely because folks on the Hill
are getting ready to organize some hearings on
how to build on the U.S.-Africa trade and
investment relationship, where to do behind AGOA,
et cetera.
And I was mentioned to Representative
Bass that the private sector has really weighed
in what's needed in order to expand our trade and
investment relationship with our African
partners. And she asked if I could share with
her the recommendations, so I did. But I thought
before I send them, let me read through them
again.
And I guess my question is, Camille,
what's the game plan for how Commerce and EXIM
and other agencies, but especially Commerce since
you run that PAC-DBIA? What's the game plan for
how to implement some of the recommendations? I
mean, they cover a wide range of issues,
including a number that you've already addressed.
But I'm just trying to figure out what's, like,
the next step to try to really help move those
particular recommendations forward?
MS. RICHARDSON: Can you give me an
example of a recommendation that caught your
attention?
MEMBER LISER: So there was one on
trying to provide more, for example, financing to
SMEs, women and diaspora and minority-owned. I
think you mentioned that. Everyone understands
that.
You talked about the listening tour
that you'll lead. These are the practical
challenges. They can be overcome, but these are
practical challenges that small businesses have.
And so the question really becomes on a practical
level what can actually be done.
MS. RICHARDSON: That's a great
question, Florie, and I appreciate it. I would
say that it would that us sitting down with our
sister agencies like EXIM at the TPCC level,
particular as the Prosper program comes together
and just really having some targeted programs
that we're able to -- I would love to have --
well, the national listening tour will have two
phases. The first phase is essentially talking
to companies that are already doing business in
Africa and say, hey, what's needed, right?
And then of course, excuse me, I have
fun alarms that go off from time to time. And
then taking that information and saying, okay,
well, how can we structure or how can we leverage
off of each other's programs in a way that's
useful and impactful? So it's a question for
which I don't have a concrete answer right now,
but it is something that should be incorporated
into phase one and phase two of our listening
tour and in our conversations with the
interagency at the NSC under the Prosper rubric.
MEMBER LISER: Let me just -- as a
part of the SAAC, I can't speak for everyone, but
we'd be very happy, I think, to support the
implementation of these really excellent
recommendations in any way that we can. So we
just need -- being a part of you all sit down
internally, in the government, decide who can do
what, and then hopefully circle back to the SAAC
in terms of how all the members might be able to
help and support.
MS. RICHARDSON: Yeah. And I see a
question from Paul asking me how SAAC advisors
can meaningfully connect to the chief
stakeholders of a listening tour. Also, we're
just putting this together. And in fact, I
thought I was leading it. But it's quite
possible that we'll be engaging our Secretary.
I'm not making any promises because I
haven't even approved the fifth floor. But
whatever it looks like, it could be small focus
groups, give us suggestions. Hey, if enough of
you want to get together, if the SAAC wants a
separate meeting on this, we are happy -- that's
the nice thing about creating something out of
thin air. You can be innovative. You can be
flexible, and you can respond to what the private
sector wants.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: So Camille, we'd be
happy to set aside if our friends at EXIM Bank
will work with Chris and the leadership of the
EXIM Bank and Judith Pryor and others. But if we
are available, we can make ourselves available
next month if you wanted us to reconvene. We'd
be happy to do it.
MS. RICHARDSON: Sounds awesome.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: So Camille, I know
you're really busy. I also know we'll hear from
Anne Womer. We're very grateful from Team EXIM
for making available so many fine high level
folks from the administration to brief us on
Africa. We're quite grateful. So Anne, we know
you're the Acting COO for Prosper Africa. Anne,
the floor is yours.
MS. WOMER: Wonderful. Thank you so
much, Dan. So good afternoon, and thank you to
the EXIM Board and Advisory Committee members for
really taking the time today to discuss Sub-
Saharan Africa and for inviting Prosper Africa to
be a part of this discussion.
So as Prosper Africa begins its next
chapter under the Biden-Harris administration, as
you heard from Deniece, we know how important it
is to hear from you to help shape our way
forward. As many of you know, Prosper Africa is
a U.S. government initiative to substantially
increase two-way trade and investment between the
United States and the nations of Africa. Through
Proper Africa, the U.S. government provides a
one-stop shop that brings together and optimizes
all our trade and investment services and
resources to support trade and investment both to
and from the continent and the United States.
Prosper Africa is really a new model
for the U.S. government. We mobilize private
capital to create jobs and fuel economic growth.
We strengthen business climates to unlock the
potential for African economies and level the
playing field for U.S. businesses.
We update and synchronize our
transaction facilitation tools to best meet
private sector needs. We provide U.S. and
African businesses with timely information on new
opportunities. And we speak in one voice across
the U.S. government to demonstrate our commitment
to the continent.
I'm pleased to report that this model
is delivering results. Since launching Prosper
Africa in June 2019, the U.S. government has
helped close 500 deals across 44 countries in
Africa. And we are building on this momentum
now, and that is across all the great
participating agencies, including EXIM.
We've got just a wonderful interagency
that works together really well to make all of
this possible. So in November 2019, you all
provided several concrete and actionable
recommendations. And I'd like to provide an
update on how we've addressed those
recommendations in the last 18 months.
First, you noted how important a clear
line of internal interagency and U.S. private
sector communication is to our success, and we
completely agree. Not only have we set up
interagency coordination structures to ensure we
are effectively modernizing and synchronizing our
services and resources, but we have also launched
a robust private sector engagement program that
has enabled us to raise awareness, driver
interest, and mobilize the private sector to act
on tangible deal opportunities. Our new website,
prosperafrica.gov, provides U.S. and African
businesses and investors with a one-stop shop for
accessing the full suite of U.S. government
services and resources across 17 participating
departments and agencies.
The site has already served over
25,000 visitors since its September launch. The
Secretariat's team of advisors regularly
coordinates across the interagency to both
receive and respond to private sector inquiries
so we can deliver a customized support package
that directs them to the right U.S. government
tools to meet their particular needs. In fact,
we successfully fielded 150 new inquiries in the
past three months. And we don't just sit back
and wait for the private sector to come to us.
We regularly work across the U.S. government to
host and participate in a wide range of events
and engagements, over 100 to date.
These convenings enable us to raise
awareness, drive interest, and mobilize the
private sector to take action on tangible
opportunities. For example, at just one of these
events, participants identified 166 million
dollars in deal opportunities across 33 African
countries. So I'm pleased to share that across
all of these channels, Prosper Africa actively
promotes EXIM tools and resources to the U.S.
private sector such as EXIM loan guarantees,
letters of interest, and export credit insurance.
You all recommended that we adopt a
whole of government approach that clearly
delineates each agency's role in the chain of
command to help drive deals forward. Our agency
has not only come together under Prosper Africa
to share information on tools and services.
We've also worked together to stand up platforms
for interagency collaboration on specific
transactions.
These include the deal teams at
embassies across the continent, interagency teams
here in Washington, and teams of technical
experts across a wide range of economic sectors.
EXIM is not only a regular but active participant
in the Prosper Africa interagency policy and deal
team process. Through these structures, we're
all working together to synchronize the end-to-
end customer experience for U.S. and African
businesses.
Third, you suggested that we focus on
key sectors. While Prosper Africa remains
private sector driven with the agility to support
our businesses wherever they see opportunity,
we're honing in on a handful of key sectors where
there is strong emerging opportunity and the U.S.
has a strong competitive advantage. These
include but are not limited to ICT, health,
infrastructure, and financial services.
We see a particularly strong
opportunity to raise awareness and drive interest
through sector focused, multi-channel private
sector outreach campaigns that we will be
implementing throughout the year. We're kicking
off our ICT campaign this week with an event that
will connect U.S. investors with an exciting
group of women tech founders whose businesses are
currently featured in the new Prosper Africa
virtual deal room. In July, stay tuned for an
event featuring opportunities in the ICT
investment space more broadly.
And finally, you emphasized the need
for secondments to help drive cross-training and
the whole of government approach. And I'm happy
to report that we have on the line today one of
our three managing directors, Bill Fanjoy, who's
detailed from the Department of Commerce. And we
continue to seek more interagency secondments in
the coming months. Biden-Harris --
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: You know, Anne, when
I write this stuff, I think it just goes into
cyberspace, into black holes. I'm amazed. This
stuff gets read? That's great.
MS. WOMER: Yes, yeah, yeah. No, it's
been --
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Thank you.
MS. WOMER: -- fantastic, yeah.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Thank you. Well,
it's clear that we're very fortunate. Just as
we've had with Deniece and Camille, we're very
fortunate, Anne, to have you in public service
right now. This is great.
I hope you take a few questions from
the SAAC. I see that Mima has his hand up, but I
want to give a chance to other SAAC members.
Obviously, I'll get to Mima. But if there's
anybody who hasn't had a chance to ask a question
yet to engage with Anne.
Well, it was obviously a very complete
-- obviously since you read all of our reports
and I'll include myself in that, obviously it
was, like, so compelling and so amazing that
people are in silent awe. But I think we should
take advantage of your presence here. Mima, do
you want to -- do you have a question or how
about Sola? Would you like to ask a question of
Anne?
MEMBER YOMI-AJAYI: From me, not
exactly. We work closely with Prosper Africa
with Anne. So I'm quite familiar with what
they're doing. So that's fine.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Paul Sullivan?
MEMBER SULLIVAN: Yeah, I think with
Prosper Africa, you could talk a little bit about
policy. But the real issue here is interagency
coordination to make sure that the embassies
within the markets that we're trying to develop
projects, that that embassy is fully tasked up
with these deal teams. But also that we have the
interagency tools and coordination to make sure
we execute.
I think the remarks that I shared at
the beginning of the call are still applicable,
though. We have a charter that's constrained.
We have a political environment that's not
interested in changing it, and we got to figure
out a way to get EXIM to compete term to term
with some of the other ECAs and not just China as
important as China is. But the rest of the world
has moved on, and we need to sort of join the
21st century here.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Let me also -- I see
Rebecca Enonchong has her hand up. Rebecca,
please.
MEMBER ENONCHONG: Hi, how are you?
I was very interested in the work that you're
doing around technology. But one of the
challenges that I and many, many other
entrepreneurs in the tech sectors have had over
the years are the regulations within African
countries and the judicial system so that you
don't really have any recourse, even if you're
right, even if you haven't -- you don't have any
legal recourse when there's a contract violation.
And as a very small business, it's
much harder to get any type of attention or
support from U.S. government as far as even
overseeing the procedures, just saying that
they're watching and they're seeing. So there
are a lot of investments in the tech sector that
have -- that in Africa where the government
changes policy in the middle of the investment or
where, again, there's a legal issue that doesn't
get resolved. And in the past, for instance, in
Cameroon, we had a very good ambassador that way.
That was very pro-business, right,
really would carry the file, as they say in
Cameroon. And subsequent ambassadors have been
much more -- have been solely on human rights
issues. And so there's nobody that's at a high
level -- U.S. person at the country level that's
really pushing a business agenda and trying to
make business relations better. I don't know if
this is something that you've tried to address.
MS. WOMER: So yeah, and I think it's
going to be addressed through the White House.
As Deniece mentioned, this administration is
interested in elevating trade and investment and
the economic relationship with Africa. That's
something that we're going to engage our
ambassadors on and make sure that they have the
tools they need in order to do this kind of work
because not every embassy has the expertise.
They need to work on ICT regulatory
reform, and it's really about making those
resources available to them. And we can
certainly do that through the Prosper
interagency. And we can do that through some
innovative USAID programming that's being rolled
out to provide that kind of assistance.
And I'd love to keep the discussion
going. PAC-DBIA gave us some great
recommendations for regulatory reforms to pursue
in the cross-border payment space. And I'd love
to hear more directly from businesses about the
barriers you're facing.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Anne, I'll make the
same offer that I made to Camille that since we
have our mandate for another 90 days, I'm more
than happy to reconvene on a virtual basis, a
conversation with ITA and a conversation with
Prosper Africa. I'll commit to doing something
in July if we can work with our friends at EXIM
to do this in an appropriate way. And if you're
on the SAAC, we can find a date and time. We'll
make it work, and will apprise everybody. Okay?
MS. WOMER: Fantastic. Thanks, Dan.
(Simultaneous speaking.)
MS. RICHARDSON: Can I add one quick
thing?
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Yeah.
MS. RICHARDSON: I'm sorry.
(Simultaneous speaking.)
MEMBER OKPA: Dan, I have a question.
Dan, I have a question.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Okay, yeah. EE,
briefly. Go ahead.
MEMBER OKPA: My question is any of
the people that spoke can take this question.
Look, FTA, a free trade agreement is a powerful
tool that U.S. uses in order to encourage trade
between countries. I think Morocco is the only
one in the 54 African countries that has one.
How come during Trump and Obama and now Biden?
Is there any move to look at -- probably again
look at smaller countries and give them a free
trade agreement on a regional basis?
In order for you to do X, Y, Z, you
have to agree to A, B, C because Africa doesn't
have a free trade agreement. We talk about
Africa, Africa, Africa when there are some
internal issues in country that makes it harder
for them to take advantage of all these programs
that American has on the table. So is there any
push in this administration to at least see one
African country or a group of African countries
have a free trade agreement?
MS. WOMER: I wish I was in a position
to respond to that question, but I'm afraid I'd
have to defer to colleagues from the Office of
the U.S. Trade Representative for that. I don't
know if anybody is on today. But thank you for
offering those comments and I'll certainly take
that question back.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: EE, that's a very
legitimate point. I assure your point -- I
suspect many folks on this call share your views
on that. I think we're going to let Anne off the
hook. That was a very diplomatic answer, but I
think it's a very important question, EE. We
need to move on.
I want to move on to our friend, Jim
O'Brien, who's known to all of us on the SAAC.
He's a partner at Baker & McKenzie. He's going
to make some remarks and we'll have a chance to
engage Jim. Jim, I'm going to turn the floor to
you.
MR. O'BRIEN: Great, thanks. Thanks,
Dan. India -- I'm going to load some slides.
India -- only the second one, if you could put it
up on the screen. Just go to the second slide
and we'll skip all the rest of them.
MS. WALKER: Okay. No problem.
MR. O'BRIEN: Thanks, Dan. And
thanks, Director Pryor and members of the SAAC.
As Dan said, I've had the great pleasure of being
on the SAAC actually for two years interrupted by
re-authorization in one case. And now I have the
pleasure of serving on the C4 committee,
competition with China.
We recently released a report called
Changing Dynamics. And we partnered with a firm
to gather up data on infrastructure transactions
in Africa. And then we also talked to some of
our partners who do work in Africa in order to be
able to better understand trends and dynamics.
This report we did follows on a 2018
report that we did on African infrastructure
where we surveyed about 400 bankers and sponsors
and then conducted some really in depth
interviews with folks in order to be able to
better understand what's going on in continent.
This report -- and this is the only slide I'll
use, and this will highlight the findings that we
found from the report -- really sets out six key
findings. Not surprisingly, the pandemic has
hurt infrastructure investment.
It's caused -- a number of things have
happened. One is that we've seen decreased
interest in international banks when investing in
infrastructure projects along with less
capability for governments and public
institutions to do the funding and also with TIP
and multilateral and bilateral lending. And some
of the slides which I'll have to send along
actually shows some of this data in more detail,
and I want to just quickly get through it as
opposed to spend a lot of time on that.
Second finding was that DFC -- DFIs
rather and actually ECAs are increasingly
influential in projects. What we've seen is that
their involvement really has become critical with
respect to the mix between local banks providing
support, private equity fund investors, and then
specialist funds. We predicted that in the 2018
report.
I think what we didn't predict was how
quick that was going to happen in the mix of
investment by the private equity funds and
specialist funds. The third trend that's clear
is that there's a real focus on longevity and
sustainability and infrastructure finance so that
deals need to be bankable but they ought to be
good for Africa as well. And that's a trend I
think we saw in 2018 and I think we've talked
about on the committee when I was on it over the
last several years.
Number four, China remains at the top,
international investors as the data would show if
I pull up the slide. Actually, China policy
lenders provide more lending into Africa than all
the other institutions combined. It is a
significant issue with respect to competition for
influence participation with financing on the
continent.
We do see and we identified in 2018
that there have been things that have changed
that would make western institutions more
competitive. But I certainly join in Paul
Sullivan's remarks that there needs to be
significant changes in order to be able to
increase that competitiveness. Other than DFIs
and ECAs, the other area we would expect capital
to come from is actually private equity and non-
bank investors.
And we've actually seen that from the
conversations we've had with private equity
investors who are looking for infrastructure
investments and can't find them elsewhere but
seen them as an important opportunity in Africa.
And where are those opportunities? That's the
six of the findings and that is we see it core
local infrastructure, something that actually
supports and is enabled by African CFTA. We also
see it in healthcare and also in digital
infrastructure. I think that mirrors the
discussion and the points that we've had before.
But if you were to look through the
slides, ultimately what you'd see is just what we
said, that the trend is down but that there are,
for example, more PE deals done in the
infrastructure space in Africa than ever before.
And I think that's one conclusion that we didn't
put in the report but I'll finish up with. And
that's to say that what's not in the report is
that we remain as people who work in Africa very
optimistic post-pandemic for investments and
transactions.
I know at least for us, we remain
fully committed to our African business. And
what we're seeing today in 2021 is what we've
seen in 2018. So from our perspective, these are
useful findings that reflect the view of our
business going forward. So that's a quick
summary, Dan. Thank you so much.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Thank you so much.
Q&A from the SAAC for Jim O'Brien?
MEMBER OKPA: So Mr. Chair, this is EE
again. Hello?
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Go ahead.
MEMBER OKPA: Okay. Jim, when you
talk about infrastructure, I mean infrastructure
could be a variety of stuff. Are you talking
about water system? Are you talking about road,
power, ICT?
And can you talk about any specific
country you have tried or done an infrastructure
project? What are the pluses and the minutes?
Because when you talk about Africa, Africa has
the Francophone and the English.
And oftentimes, when you're taking
these programs to Africa, for instance, the
French speaking ones who would like to go to
Paris to get some approval or some sort of a read
on what you're getting from America. So have you
experienced that? I'm in Nigeria. I was born
and raised.
I've been in Nigeria now. I'm going
back in one month. I'm going back twice. And
some of the challenges is these internal issues
that get in the way of actually getting things

done. So can you talk about the project,
infrastructure project you've success getting
done?
MR. O'BRIEN: Yeah, sure, just very
quickly. You're absolutely right. Taking a high
level view like this, it really understates the
importance of the fact that it is a lot of
different countries and a lot of jurisdictions
that are driven by things and cultures that are
different among each. And there is a danger in
trying to reach these broad conclusions when it's
so specific to the place that we're there.
But just quickly, the infrastructure
we're talking about here is hard infrastructure.
We can talk about water, power, ports,
connectivity, railroads, things that actually
would be the long-term kinds of infrastructure to
support growth. That's what this report primary
was focused on.
And then just finally on the last
part, you're absolutely right. It depends on one
of the issues we've talked about when I was on
the SAAC years ago is the time to closing for
projects. In all of the deals that we work on
and I suspect it's the same for you, time is the
enemy of success.
And one of the problem is the fact
that it often takes so long to get to closing
that at that point many of the investors know
there's a lost interest to spend so much money on
development, they can't get there. There are
jurisdictions where there are projects that get
out the door. In fact, EXIM has supported one of
the most important with the LNG project in
Mozambique. So yes, it can get done. And trying
to expedite them is a critical part of how we get
this done.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Thank you. Other
comments from other members of the SAAC? Rebecca
or Lori? Lori --
(Simultaneous speaking.)
MR. O'BRIEN: It's good to see so many
of you and good friends. So thank you very much
for spending time.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Florie, go ahead.
MR. O'BRIEN: Oh, sorry, Florie.
MEMBER LISER: My only question was
could we get a copy of the deck, please?
MR. O'BRIEN: I can send the report.
And actually, I'll send along the 2018 report,
Florie. That actually, I think has some useful
specific data and that's still the case today.
And I'll do both of those.
MEMBER LISER: Thank you.
MR. O'BRIEN: You bet.
MR. FROST: Lori?
MEMBER HELMERS: Sure, yeah. No, I
will just actually echo Jim's comments that he
made regarding increased or continued use of DFI
engagement throughout Africa. We're certainly
seeing that within JPMorgan, but we're also
seeing some increased collaboration between DFIs
that can bridge any funding gaps that may exist
within ECA transactions, whether it's the 15
percent or ineligible content, whatever the case
may be.
We're seeing some opportunities, I
think, for increases in collaboration. So kind
of going back to the whole of government
approach, that's a key focus for so many on the
phone and across Africa and so forth. I think
it's incumbent certainly for the private sector,
Jim, law firms and lenders and so forth to work,
to be able to connect those dots, I think, for
our client base but agree that it's increasingly
and continues to be of importance throughout
Africa and the collaboration between them --
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Mima?
MEMBER HELMERS: -- and increased
collaboration with DFI.
MEMBER NEDELCOVYCH: Just a very quick
comment, Jim. Thanks. We work with you around a
number of the countries. But I mean, the --
let's look at it. Where is PE going to go today?
Right now, PE has got a problem trying to find
return.
So the issue in the end is becoming
not the pull side. It's the structuring side.
There's -- the biggest headache people have right
now are PE managers. I guarantee that. You know
that.
(Simultaneous speaking.)
MR. O'BRIEN: Yes.
MEMBER NEDELCOVYCH: And that's where
you've got to structure and then bring in the
DFIs and ECAs and stuff.
MR. O'BRIEN: Yeah, absolutely, Mima.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Jim, thanks so much.
We're so grateful you're on the SAAC, and
obviously you bring so much expertise to these
conversations. Really appreciate it. We really
--
MR. O'BRIEN: Thanks, Dan.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: -- need to hear from
Musya Tumanyan who is the Senior Vice President
of Hoffman Equipment. Musya Tumanyan, thank you
for joining us. The floor is yours. Thanks for
being here.
MS. TUMANYAN: Hello, everyone, with
great pleasure. I've been listening for the past
hour to the all the comments of what's going on
and our favorite place in all around the world.
I would say that for the past 20 years, probably
more, I've been concentrating projects --
infrastructure projects in Sub-Saharan Africa.
And I've been to quite a few of them, traveling
directly to the job sites.
My current projects are in Cameroon,
in Ghana, in Guinea, and Nigeria. And I wanted
to support all the questions raised specifically
with respect to infrastructure since we are
construction equipment dealers. So the very
important beginning of any country development is
infrastructure, road, road rehabilitation, road
construction and road rehabilitation.
And that's where we are very involved
in all those countries that I manage plus some
others that we participated in the past. It's
very important, I believe, to mention the great
support we have EXIM Bank, the team of the
bankers and the engineers and helping us get
through the project. If not to mention, I would
say that I have to emphasize again and again the
great support from the bankers and the EXIM team.
I would be saying that a very
important factor -- and I don't know what the
rate reflects in other industries. But in our
industry specific, under U.S. EXIM
recommendations or the Congress recommendations,
we are only to bring to the project acquisitions
U.S.-made equipment. And as we all know, not
much of U.S.-made products happen to be made in
the United States. So we constantly face a very
difficult challenge to select and provide
equipment that is U.S.-based which is their
request of EXIM Bank up to 85 percent.
That in turn reflects the ability of
the customer to bring minimum regular 15 percent
down payment. So most of the loans, the loans
EXIM wants have a breach -- a commercial breach.
A breach is very costly. I don't know if anybody
ever had come across this issue or not.
For example, we have some equipment
that let's just say only 77 percent U.S.-made.
But EXIM says that only 85 percent of the
equipment -- up to 85 percent equipment is
financed on a project. So we have a gap between
7 and 8 percent which requires a commercial loan.
That's question number one.
Question number two, we would like to
see -- as industry, we would like to see more
information of banks not only providing products
and services but also project financing as a
turnkey package. I hear it day and night and
every day -- every hour of the week. This
morning, I get the same from Ghana. I get the
same from Nigeria. But that's a very important
project request from our partner customers in
various Sub-Saharan Africa countries.
And the last thing that I wanted to
mention is, and a practical point, to compete
with the Chinese, we are losing. And one of the
loss is we have to bring the equipment on a U.S.
flag. Granted that some of the projects are up
to 20 million dollars from that MARAD
requirement. But we do see that the cost of the
shipment sometimes breaks the deal or completely
precludes us from being more successful in many
countries.
All equipment, per se -- American
equipment, per se, is not shipped to being with
because there are a lot of components that are
built up in the price, specifically the OSHA
regulations, the modern technology. But the cost
of the equipment plus the cost of the shipping
makes for our more potential customers in all the
South African countries practically impossible to
opine because it's very expensive.
And the last thing that I wanted to
say is it's a great way to get together and
brainstorm. But we work very closely with the
embassies with the commercial -- I call it
commercial attaches around the countries. And we
would like to have more and more communications,
abilities with various countries. I personally
am very aggressive, reachable, and go and talk to
all those embassy members in charge of the
commercial parts.
But we would really like to hear more
of those countries that we don't do business but
would like to do business, so to speak. So the
other thing, it's so true that the project in
Africa are taking enormous amount of time. For
example, we're just about to go for a final
approval on a deal that is six years in the
making which is the second phase two in Cameroon.
So that's also kind of a killer of
those deals. But we don't give up. We don't
give up hope. And we try -- our customers -- we
try to help our customers force the issue of
mobilizing their resources and getting the
answers to EXIM Bank as soon as possible.
But it's a challenge. And I just
second the same opinion like everybody else. The
deals takes a lot of time, and the requirements
are rigid. But the deals takes a lot of time.
As a matter of fact, on the Cameroon
project that we are right now to be kind of
concluding, the environmental study that we had
to do was not only by the local people. We had
to take internationally the known company. Then
on this page, a team into the field to make sure
that all dust environmental report are adequate
to the requirement of the IMF and of course EXIM
Bank. So those are my burning issues that I
wanted to present.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Thank you, Musya. I
know there's some -- I'm sure that we're going to
hear from the SAAC. Derek, do you have your hand
up?
MEMBER CAMPBELL: I do, Dan. And just
this is to you and to Jim Cruse and to Chris and
Adam. And I know Judith Pryor is here on the
call as well. Everything that Musya so
eloquently talked about is not new, right?
Time after time, there's been a
conversation about some of the challenges that
EXIM Bank almost puts in front of itself in terms
of not being able to operate with ELAN (phonetic)
to help really good American customers, American
companies really get after helping the U.S.
maintain a pull position in this hegemonic fight
globally with our near peer actors. And Paul
said it best, I think, Paul Sullivan about this
kind of 20th century kind of approach to really a
21st century kind of problem set. And Musya's
problem, I've heard it a thousand times.
And I just want to know if the Bank
intends to really get after making it easier. I
know we went to the 51 percent from 85. Dan, you
know my position on that. I was trying to push
this down to 25, 20 to 25, to make it easy.
And it's not making it easy for the
sake of things being easy. It's about helping
the U.S. compete. And as you know, I sit on the
Global Federation of Competitiveness Councils.
We're just losing a game that we
should be winning. And again, Paul said it best
and Musya's story is hard to hear. Maybe Dan,
from you or maybe the Bank, how do we intend to
get after addressing some of these almost -- I
hate to say it this way -- habitual problem sets
that I think are structural in the way that the
Bank tries to support U.S. businesses? Am I
making any sense, Dan, or am I in left field?
Just --
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: No, I think these are
-- it's an important question. Let me ask our
friends at the EXIM Bank if anyone wants to
respond. Director Pryor or Acting Chair Cruse
might take a stab at this.
DIRECTOR PRYOR: I'm happy to say that
I heard loud and clear what Paul Sullivan had
said earlier. And Derek, I hear you. And Musya,
of course, I'm very familiar with the project of
which you speak in Cameroon because it's come
before the Board.
There's a couple of different issues.
Again, this is Judith Pryor speaking on behalf of
Judith Pryor as the independent board member.
But we have to do a lot more. We have to evolve.
We're not keeping up with our fellow
ECAs. We need to see what happened, in my
opinion, to OPIC, happened at EXIM. But we're a
political football often, and there's always a
tug of war.
And so we can only do so much as
employees and participants at EXIM to move that
forward. I think it's well known. So the more
that the business community and our partners, the
SAAC and others, the think tanks, the business
organizations who are working with their members
of Congress know it's anything you can share can
only help further our cause.
But I certainly, for one, when it
comes to China, I mean, we -- not only do we need
to get off of our back foot. But we have to
remember we're the good guys. And what we
provide is quality product at standard costs, and
we deliver the services that goes along with it.
And we just need to look for other
ways to engage, come up with solutions for
engagement with the business community but also
with our fellow ECAs. And so I am very confident
in everything I've heard from our fellow -- my
fellow government employees, members of the
Biden-Harris administration, who are talking
about extra outreach activity on the ground.
That's key for us.
President Biden's call to treat all of
Africa as a partner, and that's going to require
a whole of government approach. But then you
have this on hand, Musya, to your point,
environmental studies. I think -- I am perhaps
very fond of having environmental studies done
because I want to make sure that as the U.S.
government, we're not doing something or damage
to property, land, species, indigenous
communities, and the lack.
But I hear you that there has to be a
time frame on some of this. Sometimes it just
takes too darn long. That might perhaps be
resolved with an increase in full time employees
at EXIM, right?
So lots of things come back to -- in
the private sector, lots of things come back to
budget. I would agree that some of these things
come back to -- budget certainly comes back on
EXIM as well. And if we have more staff, we
might be able to move projects more quickly.
Not to say that we get rid of the
checklist. I think it's important to have that
checklist and those guidelines. But I do hear
you loud and clear.
I don't know if I'll get to stick
around to be part of the solution. But I
certainly hope that I'll be able to because I
think that there's a lot more to do. And
frankly, if EXIM doesn't evolve, it's -- we're
losing the game.
And I think we all know that. And
while we're bickering on the details, we're
staying on second base and everybody is making it
to home plate. So hear you loud and clear, and I
just hope that collectively we can work together
as one voice to really evolve this agency to
deliver what we can for the American industry
that so relies on us.
(Simultaneous speaking.)
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Director Pryor, I'm
just going to just flag that I'm going to come
back to you a little bit during -- I'm going to
take the privilege of the agenda and I want to
give you a little bit air time a little bit later
in the conversation for any other comments
because I noticed that you're not -- you haven't
had a chance to speak. And you've been such an
important leader the last couple years on Africa.
So have that in mind and just --
DIRECTOR PRYOR: Thanks, Dan.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: -- I'll come back to
you.
DIRECTOR PRYOR: Please, please.
Let's hear from others.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Acting Chair Cruse,
do you want to respond?
VICE CHAIR CRUSE: Okay. I think the
best thing can be said is that everything that
people have mentioned today not only has
recognized the Bank, but it is part of the
discussions going on in all of these interagency
venues. You have a host of objectives, and they
don't all complement each other.
And the administration is weighing
which objectives go first and which objectives
come later. But content and the whole part of
being in front rather than behind, they're all on
the table. I don't know how they're going to end
up.
They're not in our hands as much
they're part of what we make known to the broader
picture. But they are not being held back.
They're not being forgotten. They're not being
lost. But it really is important that people
realize that what you say and the more venues you
say them in is an important part of this because

there are a lot of other people who are -- I
won't say decision makers but decision
influencers on these matters in the various
venues.
And I think that they just need to
hear these type of comments with all of the
blood, sweat, and tears that you have associated
with secure ways for a project so that they can
plug that into the values that they're trying to
put together. This -- like I said, your views
are important. Keep making them and keep making
them in as many places as will listen to you.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Director Bachus, I
see you've joined. I see you're on camera. I'd
welcome to make any brief reactions you have to
these point.
DIRECTOR BACHUS: Well, thank you,
Dan. I have been here since almost the
beginning. I'd like to congratulate Judith.
She's about to be re-nominated as a permanent
member of the committee. She -- actually, she
serves on Sub-Sahara and I serve on the Advisory
Committee. And I'm a small business
representative.
Two things that you may have
overlooked or maybe have realized this, when the
Board lost its quorum in 2015, between that and
the restoration of the quorum, we lost about half
of our business in Africa. It was a gift to
particularly the Chinese, and we can't blame the
Chinese. We have to blame ourselves.
But one thing that has really
surprised me is if you look at our losses, our
projects, and how successful they'd been, we have
had almost no losses from our Sub-Saharan Africa
projects. Yeah, I would've expected -- because
that is a challenging area. I would've expected
the losses to be probably at the high end of our
experience. But in fact, we've had almost no
losses in Africa. So both of those are
encouraging.
I was on a 12-day tour with President
Clinton when we toured Africa. I think it was
1998. And at that time, there was very few
Chinese businesses operating in China. Those
that had, had only been there for eight to ten
years, and many of our businesses particularly
and our European allies had been there for 20 or
30 years.
It's just shocking the reversal that
we've seen. And it's harder to play offense than
it is defense. It's easier to defend market
share than it is to capture market share.
So I believe one of our messages ought
to be to anyone who'll listen was what a tragic
mistake it was to lose our quorum in 2015 and
that it has done really permanent damage to our
exporters. And it's just -- to me, it's a very
sad thing. So anyway, thank you, Dan.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Thank you, Director
Bachus. I just think this is not 1995 where we
can ask the world to hit pause while we work out
our political dysfunctions. Like, we could get
away with that 25 years ago and say, hey, we're
going to take a time out for three to five years
while we work out our issues.
Like, that just doesn't work anymore.
And so our political dysfunction has very high
price and a very high consequence. So when we --
things like taking a five-year -- doing a five-
year Rip Van Winkle on the EXIM Bank has had all
sorts of knock-on effects.
Playing games with the IMF quarter
reform which took five years also had heavy
effects. We have got to, as a country, recommit
to a bipartisan consensus on how we're going to
engage in the world. I think we're going to get
there.
I'm optimistic we will because if we
don't, someone else is going to eat our lunch.
And I don't know anybody in town who's, like,
happy about -- wants to have you know who eat our
lunch. So I hope it'll focus our mind, and I
hope we'll get there. But it's still a work in
progress, and I appreciate your remarks. I see
that Sola had her hand --
DIRECTOR BACHUS: You'll also notice,
Dan, that we lost a lot of our experienced staff
between 2015 and 2019. Director Cruse knows that
all too well. Even after I joined the Board, two
of our most experienced people, they had already
started looking around because of the uncertainty
at EXIM.
And both of them accepted jobs which
were more lucrative, and they both said that they
never considered leaving EXIM and never even
thought about looking elsewhere. And we are
replacing people. But there's no substitute for
experience.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Amen. I see that,
Sola, you have your hand up.
MEMBER YOMI-AJAYI: Yes, I do, Dan.
Okay. So I just wanted to add or comment on
something Musya had said as well as Judith. And
Musya talked about the difficulty in closing
transactions in Africa. Definitely that is true.
It does take a while for those
transactions to come together. And often enough,
the nature of the transaction changes during the
process of putting that together. It's very,
very unique to the region. And that's why it's
very, very important to have people dedicated to
the region who understand the region because a
lot of this is very relationship intensive. And
following through on these relationships is
critical to get a deal done.
Judith had talked about the
environmental issues which are critical. But as
you do know, whatever you do in the
infrastructure space, you're going to have to
contend with environmental issues. So we've
talked about doing business with Africa as a
partner. It is not news to anybody in here that
when it comes to environmental and climate,
Africa is quite behind the rest of the world as
it relates to having that as a focus and actually
taking steps in that direct because there are
just so many or the basic needs have taken
priority.
So my recommendation as a member of
the SAAC would be for EXIM inasmuch as you have
that need to take the box as related to
environmental definitely the world must focus on
that. But can you also consider for a region
like Africa that's really behind the rest of the
world put it in place compliance plans, because
if you want everything to be perfect before you
actually get a deal done, you might find you lose
a lot of opportunities compared to China EXIM or
UK Fund, other ECAs operating in Africa. So
that's something you really need to consider and
incorporate into the approach to Africa.
MEMBER CAMPBELL: I second that.
That's a good one.
DIRECTOR PRYOR: Thank you. And I
would -- I know we've heard from Adam about our
China program. We do have this internal
transformational exports program that came
through our -- in our last charter from Congress
that requires us to sort of tackle this issue and
allows EXIM to look at any way possible where we
can combat Chinese encroachment on particular
projects and in particular sectors. And there's
ten sectors.
So Sola, thank you so much. I think
we -- my comments merely are that we need to
continue to partner with U.S. industry to build
their appetite to want to go to the continent.
So I would venture to guess that most of the
people involved with the SAAC are here for a
reason.
You've been doing business on the
continent. You understand the markets. But many
American businesses are still afraid. We just
don't -- we don't have the appetite.
They look at Africa as being one place
instead of more than 50 countries with different
environments and the like. So I think we have to
do -- and this is why I was so glad to hear from
all of our governments. Because, again, from
Deputy Assistant Secretary Richardson, from
Deniece, from Anne, these educational initiatives
are imperative, both here and on the continent.
In the chat section, some folks were
commenting about we really need to have people on
the ground. So we have a joke in the Pryor
house. When I want something done that I know I
can't make happen, my husband says, okay, you
want to be queen for a day.
So if I were queen for a day at EXIM,
here's what would happen. We'd have deal teams,
EXIM-specific trained people living and working
across the continent, working with Commerce,
working with the embassies to make things happen.
But until we do, we have to rely on our partners
at Commerce to really help make that happen.
And I'm very heartened and I'm sure
I'm speaking on behalf of the EXIM team, Vice
Chairman Cruse, Adam, others on the team,
Commerce really, really wants to engage with us
and help us. And so we're going to take
advantage of that. And I'll leave my comments --
(Simultaneous speaking.)
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: So I see that Marise
Stewart, you have had your hand up. I'd like to
call on you, Marise.
MEMBER STEWART: Thank you. And
Judith, thank you in particular for those
encouraging words. I think one of the things
that we've dealt with whenever we have a sale or
an opportunity that we're chasing, we start out
with EXIM and the Advocacy Center. I mean,
that's our go-to team.
And to have this new and greater
emphasis on whole of government is very
effective. But the hiatus did really hurt us. I
mean, we're a global company thankful, so we have
presence at other places and can engage with
other ECAs. But our preference is U.S. EXIM.
It's interesting. Early this year, we
tried to bring an opportunity to EXIM. Got a
great letter of enthusiasm as we always do. And
turned out once the customer saw the cost for a
U.S. flagship, they just -- they weren't
interested. We did not lose the sale, but we
lost the ability to bring it to EXIM which is so
unfortunately because this customer would've been
much better served.
I mean, they went out into the market
and found commercial financing. But I think a
quick win -- and I don't mean skipping any of the
due diligence steps or any of the things we need
to do to make sure it's a financially sound
arrangement. A quick win either on
transformational or beating the Chinese or being
creative about terms would be a real morale
booster, something that would help the business
community see we don't have to go to the other
ECAs because once you struggle a little while
with U.S. EXIM and then you start looking around
the world where you have a base, a lot of these
other ECAs are very easy, very flexible, and move
pretty quickly.
DIRECTOR PRYOR: Couldn't agree more.
Couldn't agree more. And I have spent my career
prior to my time at OPIC in the private sector,
and I just couldn't agree more. We have to be --
we are not business at the speed of light. We
are the government. And while certain -- all the
due diligence is very, very critical, I hear you.
I know that everyone hears you.
And we just -- we are just -- I'm
hopeful that we can move EXIM and build enough
support to take us to the next level and make
this easier for American industry to success
abroad. We have to, right? We have to. This
has to be the next step. And again, I'm putting
the disclaimer at the bottom that these are
Judith Pryor's remarks, right?
MEMBER STEWART: Completely agree.
Thank you.
(Simultaneous speaking.)
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Rebecca, Rebecca,
please.
MEMBER ENONCHONG: Hi, so thank you
very much. I heard Cameroon a lot. I'm living
there. There are two things that I wanted to say
is, one, in order to improve our visibility is to
have some kind of campaign on promoting
transparency.
I think that Cameroon is one of those
countries, for instance, where the population is
very disconnected from the government. I don't
know if you've heard. This last couple of weeks,
IMF funded a COVID campaign.
Three hundred and thirty-six million
dollars have gone missing, and the population
isn't blaming the government this time. They're
blaming the IMF because over and over and over,
they're reinforcing this -- they keep giving
loans to a government that is going to
misappropriate the money. And this is not unique
to Cameroon.
I would with a lot, a lot of young
people on the continent, and it would be really
good to have some kind of campaign that really
speaks to them. Or maybe even finance, find some
funding for some of these transparency
organizations that do, like, budget -- say where
the budget is being used, how the budget is being
used but be as transparent as possible, have as
many documents online as possible on any deal and
sell that as a brand so that people are excited
about U.S. exports and working with U.S.
companies because they know that the money is not
just going to disappear. So that's the first
thing I wanted to say.
The second thing I wanted to say was
how much are we leveraging technology in the
application process, because I think that we're
in 2021. Some of these we could use algorithms.
We don't have to do things the way we were doing
them 30 years ago or even 5 years ago.
There's so much technology to assess
credit risk, to make the process so much faster.
And I think that could also be a branding issue.
Like, hey, we could process -- we're using
different types of metrics and different types of
information that we're pulling because that's the
information that's really more reliable in
telling us who repays a loan.
And so we're going to use that data to
make the application process faster. And I
really -- there are a lot of innovative lending
organizations that are able to lend to African
businesses that don't have a credit rating using
all sorts of different data that these companies
populate, put in an application, even can do it
on a mobile phone. And so really to help the
process and be really modern because I think one
of the things about EXIM is the whole brand just
seems very outdated.
And something needs to be done, I
think, to show the world that it's a 21st century
organization. So those were my two remarks. I'm
not trying to hurt anybody's feelings. Nobody is
doing branding on this.
DIRECTOR PRYOR: No. We have actually
an excellent woman in charge that Director Bachus
works with Elizabeth Thomas for our small
business outreach. And that program is amazing
and really state of the art. But the problem we
face, like every other government agency, is no
one likes to give us an advertising and a
marketing budget, right?
So you're already -- Chris is smiling.
But you're already -- we're already at a
disadvantage because we can't promote the good
that we can bring. But we can continue to fight
for more dollars from Congress in order to
bolster the activity that we're already
undertaking to improve our systems to modernize
the application process and the like.
And we have a great IT department that
is really working to do just that. I would
venture to guess that we probably spend more time
on IT infrastructure that is meant to spit out
and report data back to Congress. So what's fair
is fair. Maybe we can try to do a little bit of
both and bring a little more balance to that. So
points taken, Rebecca. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Sola?
MS. TUMANYAN: Thank you, Dan. Okay.
Hi, Judith. Back to you again. So we talked
about boots on the ground early on and the fact
that that's not there today. I was just
wondering how much collaboration you have
currently with the departments that are on
ground, so, like, the Department of State.
You have the embassies. You have the
different trade hubs. You also have the USTDA
and all of that. What is the extent of the
collaboration with EXIM today, because you can
leverage the boots on the ground, though they may
not be U.S. EXIM. But they are U.S. government
boots.
DIRECTOR PRYOR: Right.
MS. TUMANYAN: So to what extent are
they promoting EXIM capabilities on ground?
DIRECTOR PRYOR: Right.
MS. TUMANYAN: Yes, there's a lot they
have to cover, but that needs -- I think needs to
come out a bit more strongly and prioritize in my
view. Additionally, back in the day -- it's a
bit different now. But back in the day, trade
fairs and expos used to be a big deal. I think
it's still relevant.
Today, everybody goes to China. When
China was looking for the business, China went to
Africa. Now China doesn't have to go to Africa.
Africa is going to China, right?
So I think some of those things need
to come back or we do a bit more of it, so create
more awareness. U.S. institutions are not very
keen on going. They don't have a lot of good
news about Africa. They also do not have a lot
of information about the opportunities available.
But perhaps we need to curate a bit
of, like Rebecca said, information. Put it out
there, even here into the U.S. companies, the
middle markets about the opportunities in Africa
and facilitate occasionally some missions to
Africa for them to explore these business
opportunities. I just want to use an example.
Business France does this twice a year, taking
different French companies into Africa just to
have meetings, look at opportunities, and be in a
position to compete. I think --
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Right, right.
MS. TUMANYAN: -- this needs to be on
the agenda.
DIRECTOR PRYOR: Thank you, Sola.
Just very quickly in response to your questions,
we absolutely rely and collaborate very heavily
with State, Commerce, even our colleagues at
USTDA. I'd like to see greater collaboration
with the U.S. DFC which is the new OPIC, if you
will, for those old timers like me who remember
it by its former acronym.
TDA does -- USTDA does reverse trade
missions. I'm guessing that they're going to
focus a lot of those missions on Africa. And
EXIM is always invited to participate. We
really, really work very closely with TDA,
Commerce, and the various divisions within
Commerce, whether it's initiatives like Prosper
Africa, Power Africa, ITA, if anyone else has
more.
But I think we hear you. And
fortunately, we have great working relationships
with our sister agencies because we have to rely
on them, and we do so very heavily. And then one
last comment I would just make, and this I back
to Director Bachus' earlier comments about the
Bank being shut down, our loss of a quorum.
We used to be the player, right? We
used to be the person that everyone sort of
looked up to as being the ECA. And when your
doors are closed for four years because there's
bickering over whether or not this agency should
exist, it's unfortunate.
And so just Director Bachus' comments
earlier about how much damage it's caused, I
mean, we're still learning. People still don't
know we're open. People are leery that it's
going to happen again.
But rest assured, there's enough
support in our Congress to keep these doors open.
And I'm just going to be positive here and hope
that continues to be the case and we are able to
grow and expand the agency and its mission and
how we achieve it.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Mima?
MEMBER NEDELCOVYCH: Thank you,
Chairman Runde. And I'm somewhere in the open
discussion section, so I have a few random
thoughts and a couple of questions. First of
all, I really do want to thank you for your
chairmanship the last two years. It really has
been very, very effective.
But I think many of you know me. I'm
the old dog in African business. It's been over
damn near 50 years now all over the world. And I
can see from the smiles I've seen your various
countries.
What I would like to say, just a
couple of thoughts going forward. And part of
this is the value of longitude. I sat on the
first Africa -- first SAAC back in 2000 with
Harmon at that time.
But how much has Africa changed?
That's the whole issue. Africa didn't change.
The world moved. China saw Africa. They came
in. We went to sleep.
So a couple of thoughts, one, yes,
China. Two, it's more than China. I'm telling
you. The European ECA, same thing. I mean, we
structure our projects when EXIM was not there in
Angola. But a couple years ago, we put together
640 million with the European ECAs and South
Koreans. But most of the product to U.S. wasn't
solar energy.
So my bed, my prayers we say in
Nigeria is really look back now. And the way you
can sell EXIM, frankly, when I'm out in the bush
all the -- in the country all the time. I'm just
back from a month long, Angola, Nigeria, Guinea.
And somebody said, there's an uptick
Africa? The answer is absolutely. There's a big
uptick. And the continent has got an uptick.
Whether we want to participate in an uptick or
not is our problem. It's our issue. The
continent has the huge uptick, no question.
Now what is the role that EXIM wants
to play? Has to be competitive with all the
other ECAs, full stop. And I come back to this
issue of the policy banks. We have to be more
flexible. We have to get on out there.
We have to match with China. But all
the other ECAs, that's the key issue when you get
down to it. And at the end, and particularly as
I go in my combination of solar power renewables
and agribusiness, we're very competitive.
But one of the things -- and I've had
this discussion with Commerce and it's important
because the ambassadors who were operating have
heard it. We don't sell widgets. We sell
solutions.
It's solutions that drive the
projects. The projects didn't need equipment and
services. Africans right now, whether it's
government sector or private sector, are
sophisticated buyers and people. They will
understand the value of -- lifetime value of a
product and the service.
So let's structure it rightly,
correctly. Remember who we're speaking with.
Part of the reason people are fed up on the
continent with the Chinese because with that
comes a whole lot of anchors they don't
necessarily want. That's key.
So here's the opportunity. And
frankly, I tell people, you know what? The fact
that EXIM was closed for five years is great
because now we've got so much liquidity, we don't
know what to do with it.
So the key is we're ready. We're
ready. We're coming with a worship statue. That
is the way, as business, that I sell it, never
mind the SAAC Advisory Committee side. So I just
want to make that point very, very clear as we go
forward. And if I need to lobby the U.S.
Congress, I'd be happy to do that too.
I want to mention one other thing
that's also very, very important. We said China.
We said renewables. And then it was -- I forget.
It was our colleague, Derek, I think.
Yes, you need baseload. I'm involved
with LNG also. But in fact, the two biggest
issues come together to be the two biggest
opportunities. We're the world's top solar
provider -- solar solution provider.
China is our biggest competitor. Yes,
we can beat them, absolutely. That's why we need
EXIM and why we're going the way we are now, as
somebody mentioned with the advocacy programs, et
cetera.
So that's kind of my random thoughts
of we're competitive and we're combining solar
with agri and going big. I could talk my area.
Rebecca knows me. She's taught me a little bit
about IT. Over time, I learn. But I'm an old
dog. I'm into the basic infrastructure.
I do want to end with a couple of
questions. One, and in fact, it was brought up
to me in Nigeria. I was reminded on a trip with
Harmon -- Chairman Harmon at the time. We had to
delegate authorities to the banks that allowed
that to go forward.
And somebody even raised and said,
listen, EXIM, in fact, has -- it is government
owned, would be able to actually combine very
nice and neatly in derisking some of the EXIM
issue. I don't know where that sits. But I want
to throw it on the table for future discussion.
And the other point I want to raise
and question really is there's one big market
coming up and that's called Sudan. My question
is, what does the future portend vis-a-vis EXIM
and Sudan going forward? Two questions, the rest
are comments. Take them for what they're worth.
This is Mima speaking.
(Simultaneous speaking.)
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Mima, what I'll do is
let me ask that Team EXIM kind of put those
questions in the parking lot and let's come back
to it before the open discussion. So let's get a
couple more comments. And Paul Sullivan, please.
MEMBER SULLIVAN: Thank you, Daniel.
One thing I did want to highlight because I've
been in these meetings for the last couple of
years as a member of the SAAC. We're always had
a lot of vigorous participation, but this meeting
in particular is quite spirited.
And I imagine it's because we're
seeing a new administration take over. And I
certainly wouldn't want any of our remarks to
reflect any kind of disappointment in the EXIM
team. I think it's almost unanimous, if not
unanimous, the folks on this committee and the
others who work with EXIM.
We love the people of EXIM. But we
get the sense that they show up to work every day
in full stride and then they have to put out
their arms to be handcuffed when they enter the
building within the restrictions of their own
charter while they're still reading the same
newspapers that we are that are seeing how the
rest of world is doing deals. So I wouldn't want
this to be a bashing session on EXIM.
Our remarks are mostly directed
toward, how can we capture this messaging and get
it out to relevant places of influence,
particularly Congress that has a significant
influence over policy? The other comment I
wanted to make which was related to having boots
on the ground in different markets, in our case
here in this committee, it's Africa. These deals
are done obviously with ministries of finance
that have debt management departments.
You can have deal teams within
embassies, and that is very effective.
Definitely don't want to discount the
effectiveness of what Commerce has done in its
interagency efforts through Prosper Africa and
other vehicles with State, et cetera. But you
still have to have people who can walk through
the debt management departments of these MOFs and
say, hey, this point on this transaction or this
feature of the financing, where are you with this
document, someone who could really talk
transactional details.
How do we know? We know because our
own banks, our commercial banks who are leading
all of these project, are doing those things.
But it would be a lot -- the deal cycle would be
a lot shorter if EXIM were actually on the ground
regionally to join in some of those
conversations. And those of us who are doing
these deals know that this can happen.
I mean, OPIC, now DFC, they've had
their folks regionally placed. So why can't EXIM
do that? I realize no one at EXIM can answer
that question because that's not really within
their decision framework right now. But if we
can get in front of the right folks in Congress,
on Capitol Hill, anywhere else, happy to do it.
The last thing I wanted to mention is
EXIM's charter or at least the politics around
its current charter reflect these outdated views,
economic views of Adam Smith's invisible hand.
And somehow EXIM is part of some agreed upon sin
of corporate subsidies which is absurd. And when
I listen to the Biden administration where I view
this as a real opportunity when they talk about
re-imagining the economy, let's make that hand
very visible.
And that's what EXIM's opportunity is
here. And you have a lot of advocates sitting on
this committee who can go out and do it. But I
think it's important for other supporters or
advocates or folks within EXIM to external
engagement, who knows, to push us into the right
audiences so that we can share the gospel here
because it is definitely not getting through.
And I've sat through so many
conversations where I hear this nonsense about
how these are corporate subsidies and we can't be
involved in it. There are subsidies abound in
the American relationship between government and
the private sector. And we need to dispense with
this myth on what historically has been a pretty
unknown sleepy agency. It's shocking to me that
in the past decade, it has become this massive
controversy because it's certainly totally
unknown --
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Okay.
(Simultaneous speaking.)
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: This is very helpful.
Thank you. I want to get to some other folks as
well. Marise, did you want to come in? Marise?
MEMBER STEWART: There we go. Sorry.
I'm a little slow on the technical stuff. Yes,
again, couldn't agree more with what Paul was
saying. As you know, at Progress and certainly
at Caterpillar, we advocate continually for the
Bank.
But it's got to be a new framework
that we are looking through or helping --
actually helping others look through, because as
I said earlier, it's just too easy to go
somewhere else where things move along quickly.
And when you have some inertia in a deal, you
need to follow it through. So it's certainly not
a criticism of anybody at EXIM.
I mean, there's some strong people
there. As I said, it's our first stop anytime we
have an opportunity. And we want to continue to
use them.
And it's like what you were saying,
Judith. I mean, EXIM has always been our hero.
But to have been hobbled and lame for that period
through no fault of their own, I mean, we've got
to come back from that because there are a lot of
good people still there.
The other thing I want to add is the
notion of people on the ground. I know it's
expensive. I know that's probably another
battle.
But I will tell you it's our
experience that in embassies of other countries,
they've got folks posted and they chase each
other to get things done. And they hand you off
to another country. If you're in Nigeria, they
want to know what else you've got going on
because they'll send you to somebody else on the
continent in another country where you're active.
So it's just this continuous buzz and
enthusiasm. And again, you develop some
momentum. And it's very exciting from a business
standpoint.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Great.
MEMBER STEWART: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Derek?
MEMBER CAMPBELL: Yeah, this is just
a question, Dan. And this is for you. This is
for, well, the EXIM team. And as we did on the
C4 committee, we pushed to get that U.S. content
driven down from 85 to 51 percent.
Can we re-attack that? Can we try and
get it even lower? And it may be a drive from
the Sub-Saharan Africa Committee. Can we go even
lower than that now, like, a re-attack on that
whole issue, because to me that's the lower
hanging fruit, right?
With all the ebb and flow in EXIM
right now, maybe attacking a policy issue like
that could help us get some traction and
attention so we can get a better scenario quicker
than later. Does that make sense, Dan? Or am I
in left field?
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Yeah, I think it's a
legitimate point, Derek. EE, are you on? Are
you trying -- you wanted to come in?
MEMBER OKPA: Yes, my question is if
we want to compete with China, are we sector
trying to compete with them or are we on terms
and conditions, because the way China approaches
business opportunities in Africa, it's not the
way U.S. wants to do it. China bribes Africans.
They do those things, and Africans fall for it.
And they take this money, and then
they do the projects they do. So are we trying
to do be like China, because I think they're in
China. But we don't want to speak about how
China do the things they do.
And then another question I have is
you look at Nigeria, for instance. The foreign
exchange rate between the dollar and the naira
has been the worst in the past 22 years. In
1999, if you had one million naira, you had an
equivalent of 12,000 dollars. Today, it's only
about 2,300 dollars.
So how is an importer going to deal
with this sort of fluctuating aggressive downfall
of the exchange rate? It's not an EXIM thing.
It's an African thing.
And so let us be clear. EXIM is not
responsible for why Africa is where they are.
Africa has to do their own paying for them to
also get access to the resources that are
available. So how do we want to compete with
China is my question? Do we want to bribe
Africans in order for them to take our business?
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: So let me just
suggest the following. I see Lori and Sola have
their hands up still. Here's what I'd ask of
Lori and Sola.
You give me -- I'd like to give
Director Pryor a change to respond to some of the
things that have been put on the table here. And
I need to go to public comment, and then we might
-- I'll cede my two minutes if both of you want
30 seconds at the end to kind of make comments.
I'll ceded my air time to you.
But Director Pryor, I think we need to
give you a chance. There have been a lot of
stuff put on the table. Why don't I give you a
chance to respond. You're not going to be able
to answer all of these questions or all these
comments in a few minutes. But why don't I give
you a couple of minutes just to respond to what
you've heard.
DIRECTOR PRYOR: Thank you, Chairman
Runde. I'm sure the rest of the EXIM folks have
probably said, she's already said enough. Stop
talking. So --
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Oh, no. You're my
favorite -- no offense, but you're my favorite
EXIM director. So what do you want? I'm playing
favorites.
DIRECTOR PRYOR: Oh, oh, okay. I'm
not -- I'm really not going to -- there's too
many questions that I could just get into way too
much trouble if I were to try to answer on behalf
of the administration with not knowing. Here's
what I would say is I think that if ever there
was a ripe opportunity for EXIM to become
supersized for it to do the right thing to help
from how we can -- EE, I hear your comments. I
mean, Africa has to do its part too. We can't
solve all these problems.
But I do know, and I'm going to go
back to this, we are the good guys. We don't use
unfair labor practices for a very mild way of
putting it. We have standards. We have worker
rights. We have human rights. We have
environmental safety measures that are put into
place.
These are all, yes, long term. But I
do think that this is an educational initiative
and we have to partner. And I don't think EXIM
can do it alone.
And I don't think EXIM can be blamed
for everything that is happening that might be
wrong in the world, right? If we talk about our
detractors, we are not the sole reason that, for
example, U.S. jobs have offshored over the past
40 years. So Derek, I hear you. That's a shout
out to you.
But is reducing our content percentage
across the board the best thing? I heard from
Marise that they had to go to -- they got their
deal done, but it's only because they didn't ship
the supplies on a U.S. flagged vessel. I mean,
there are more than one way to fry the fish, and
we need to take a step back and look at all of
that. And I will just say we being the
collective, the Biden administration, our
advocates on Capitol Hill, the champions who
really love what EXIM is doing for their states,
for their constituents, for their businesses,
because we are losing the game.
And I think that is definitely --
everyone is on the same page with that. So all I
can say is if I ever had faith, I have faith in
this administration to tackle these tough issues,
to allow EXIM to partner with sister agencies,
Commerce, USTR, MCC, OPIC, everyone. Everyone
has a role to play and we, I think, are finally
going to pull that all together and be able to
hopefully move things forward. And I'm going to
stop talking at that.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Okay. So let me do
the following. I need to move to this issue of
public comment, but I'll cede my last two minutes
to the SAAC to Sola and to Lori at the very end.
Okay. So we now need to move to open public
comment because that's part of the requirement.
So are there folks from the audience?
I'm not sure exactly how we're going to manage
this, Team EXIM. But I know there have been a
number of public participants who've been
patiently listening to this. I want to give them
a chance to participate.
MR. VAN ES: India, can you let us
know if we have any public questions?
MS. WALKER: So I would say if you
have a question, can you please go into the chat
if you have access and just go ahead and put your
first and last name and just let me know that you
have a question? Then I'll go ahead and say your
name so you can ask your question.
MR. VAN ES: We'll just give folks a
quick second here.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: While we're waiting,
Lori, why don't you go ahead and make your
comment?
MEMBER HELMERS: Sure. I mean,
absolutely. So JPMorgan works with certainly
EXIM Bank and other export credit agencies around
the world. You know, being a U.S. bank, we like
to say that EXIM Bank is our largest
relationship.
But I will state that EXIM Bank's
product from a commercial lender standpoint can
be very, very attractive when positioning this
with foreign buyers around the world mainly
because of the 100 percent cover versus the 95
percent cover from other European agencies. So
as a commercial bank, that means we don't have to
come up with exposure or appetite for the 5
percent residual exposure, right? So anytime we
have a chance to position U.S. EXIM Bank, we do
for our borrowers, especially in developing
markets throughout Africa.
And EXIM Bank, again, from a product
standpoint, doesn't advertise any specific
regional or country limitations that maybe other
ECAs may be encumbered with. And then also at
the end of the day, the products from U.S.
suppler base and exporter base can often be far
superior from just a technological standpoint
then other competitors globally, especially some
of the challenges that we've heard from our
exporters who are competing with China. So I
think the entire package, I think, can be
extremely compelling.
Again, the challenge I think which we
run into time and again is just whenever EXIM
Bank is forced to kind of play outside of its
box, either from a policy standard, CLS
standpoint, whatever the case may be, I think the
transformational exports was a great first step.
And I think what has brought to light, at least
from our perspective, is we have gotten an influx
of inquiries from exporters that we wouldn't
normally get inquiries from, right, just saying,
does my project classify or qualify as
transformational? And it's still a grey area,
especially when it comes to energy efficiency.
But the message is, is that we're
getting looks at opportunities that we wouldn't
normally get looks at, right, from an EXIM Bank
standpoint. Now there's other ways to skin that
cat. If they don't qualify or for
transformational coverage, we can look at maybe a
cofinancing option for the foreign content coming
in from other areas.
But still, the cofinancing, while an
okay solution, it can be more costly. It can be
more cumbersome, especially when you're competing
with another ECA that comes to the table for the
full financing package. And the last thing I'll
state is that JPMorgan is in the process or has
onboarded more countries really throughout Sub-
Saharan Africa.
And that demonstrates our commitment
to the region, our commitment certainly to the
continent, trade within JPMorgan, whether it's
letters of credit, a classical trade, whether it
be export credit agency and finance. That's
oftentimes our first look in to opportunities
into those countries. And we certainly want to
be -- want to ensure that we have a competing
product or competitive produce, certainly with
EXIM Bank, that we can present to our borrowers
because we do think it's -- EXIM Bank has a great
product --
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Great.
MEMBER HELMERS: -- and can have a
great product.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Great. Thanks, Lori.
Okay. So other public comments? India, public
comments?
MS. WALKER: We have nothing so far.
Nothing --
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Oh, that's great.
MS. WALKER: -- so far.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Okay. Whew. Okay.
Let me -- Sola, please.
MEMBER YOMI-AJAYI: Hi, Dan. I'm
fine. I forgot to drop my hand. I apologize.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Okay. Got it. Okay.
Well, good. I think let me ask Acting Chair
Cruse if he wants to comment on some of the
questions or comments that were put on the table.
VICE CHAIR CRUSE: I think there's way
too many things, and I already noted the fact
that we are aware of them. We are dealing with
them. And we have put them on our table in our
agency and elsewhere. And now I just encourage
all of you to do the same.
This is going to be process to deal
with many of these things. I think the point
that we have a lot to sell. We have a lot of
capacity.
Yeah, we do have nearly 80 billion
dollars of free capital to put into play. That's
a lot of money that can go a long way. But the
image that I have had for years of the Bank is
one of Gulliver and the Lilliputians. And so I
just say that it is really up to the community
and to others to deal with the Lilliputians.
Okay. That's all from my side.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Good. Okay. India,
if there aren't any other comments or questions
from the public, I want to give the SAAC any
further last comments.
DIRECTOR PRYOR: Dan, we haven't heard
from you.
CHAIRMAN RUNDE: Look, I think there's
a couple of things. I would say that I'm very
optimistic about the new administration. I do
think it was very important that we had a
unanimous vote on the EXIM Board for changes and
rules and sort of -- and rules of origin.
So thank you, Director Pryor, for your
vocal courage. I do think there is some
potential to -- there's a number of things that
have been talked about over the last several
years. I think there's -- I think as the
administration -- I think we've heard -- we had
folks take time out of their schedules to engage
with us in a public way about this.
I'm optimistic that there are some
opportunities for us to do some further things as
a SAAC to help. I do think we might -- I'm
interested in hosting the SAAC with Prosper
Africa and with ITA who both asked and indicated
interest. I think we are in the chairs through
September. So we should use that time.
So I'll commit to reconvening this
group in the month of July to do that. I also
would be open to thinking about some sort of set
of recommendations. We've done a series of
papers the year -- B.C., before COVID, we were
able to put a couple of papers together and run
it through it some subcommittees.
It may be a little bit on the tight
side to pull something together. But maybe
there's something wearing my day job hat where I
might convene some members of the SAAC to put
some ideas on the table in a public forum. So
maybe more on that shortly.
But I think -- look, I think there's
going to be -- I think the idea of seeing Africa
as a partner is something people like Mima
Nedelcovych and Florie Liser have been talking
about before this was cool. I think it's great.
And I think that we need to see Africa as a
business opportunity.
I think EXIM Bank is one of the key
instruments by which we're going to be able to do
that. So let me end it there, and let's try and
get a couple of things -- a couple other things
on the scoreboard before our terms end in
September. And let's -- I think we'll conclude
the meeting now.
(Whereupon, the above-entitled matter
went off the record at 4:30 p.m.)